Retirement

Poll
Question: How much is enough for you to retire?
5.000.000 €+ - 23 (20.4%)
2.000.000 €+ - 24 (21.2%)
1.000.000 €+ - 31 (27.4%)
500.000 €+ - 27 (23.9%)
200.000 €+ - 8 (7.1%)
Total Members Voted: 107

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Author Topic: Retirement  (Read 6793 times)
Yngwie/Sawyer
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Yngwie/Sawyer

Retirement
« on: July 10, 2013, 12:42:22 AM »



There's something funny about retirement for a Sports Arbitrage Trader or a Professional Handicapper.
Sure, you can get retired anytime you want. Nobody is forcing you to work 'til 60.
When you accumulated a satisfactory wealth, you can get retired anytime..

But here comes the vital question!

What you will do when you get retired?

If you won't do any arbing or betting activity..what else you will do?

Don't know 'bout you but I'm sure I would get bored. Sure, I can play guitar or form a band of grandpas. I can join local karaoke contests and put the stage on fire! Can go vacation with my family. I can watch my favourite 80's cartoons all day! Would be fun (and extremely nostalgic!) to re-play my favourite old C-64 and Amiga games too. Going to Vegas with friends (if any of them left alive, lol) and playing golf with my fancy fancy gucci gucci pants..but then?



You will get bored anyway..

Be it trading or betting; It's not a hobby or a part time job for us. It's a part of your life. Arbitrage and Betting are a part of my life. I can't imagine a life without these..but how long? Forever?

When I was a straight bettor, I always said I must get retired before 60 or I may die cause of heart attack, lol. Not kidding about it, sports betting can be very stresful (and frustrating) sometimes. You know, some people bet for fun, joy and excitement, I can't really understand these people. Where's the joy when your team is leading by 2 points and Kobe jumps for a 3-pointer and clock is 00:02! Where's the joy when you have Over 3,5 and half time ends with a dull 0-0 score. Where's the joy when opponent team is rewarded with a penalty kick on 90+3? Even if you win in the end, what about the pain you felt while watching?



Watching a sport event which you have a wager on, can be very stresful, painful sometimes..even if you win in the end. So my mentality in sports betting is simple. Don't watch an event if you have a wager on it, lol.

Watching a sport event should not give any hint or tips since all your bets, selections should be based on a mathematical model/system. I don't believe in betting with gutfeeling.

I don't say it's an universal truth; this is just my opinion. This is my way, this is just what worked for me. Feel free to agree or disagree, no problem. If you're betting, you must bet like a robot. There's no room for emotions in sports betting.  You should not feel too bad after a loss and you should not feel too good after a win. You must adjust your stake according to this mentality. If you bet what you can afford to lose, you won't feel so bad even after a bad losing streak.



Personally, I don't feel too much excitement when watching  a sport event, be it bad or good. I never worry/cry after losing a bet or never jump like crazy, get violent after a win. (Yeah, even I'm an arber, still time to time, I place some straight wagers too but not very often)

But arbitrage is a more calm job then straight betting. There is no losing streaks and there isn't unpleasent 90+3 own goals, lol.

Sure, arbitrage trading has some risks too. There's some stress involved, yes (account suspend, slow payments etc) but its stress level cannot be compared with sports betting.

Anyway, I'm not writing this article to compare arbitrage and sports betting, let's get to the point: Retirement!



Let's Get To The Point: The Retirement

Just like every profession in life, your arbitrage career may have an end too..One day, you will get limited in all books. Maybe you will sign-up for your friends and relatives in order to open new accounts but these people are not infinite either..

Your income will decrease one day. Do you ever think what you will do that day?

Sure, we got books which don't limit you such as Pinnacle Sports, Sbobet, IBC, Betfair but how often you find an arb between these books? %99 of all time, you find an arb between these and a softbook. You need softbooks in order to make satisfactory profit.

Unfortunately, softbooks don't like arbers so your time is limited with them.

So let's have a look to alternatives..You can switch back to sports betting or trading..it's up to you. You have many alternatives. If you had worked several years as a Sports Arbitrage Trader, then you must have made some accumulation, some savings! You can start/run your own business with that money. Open a cafe or a restaurant, buy some land! Buy/Sell Real Estate. Options are endless..



Being A Sports Betting Arbitrage Trader is like being a pirate. Believe me, there's no difference. Being a Pirate was a good occupation in 16th century. They sinked, boarded ships and plundered towns, cities; making a fortune in their short career..



Why short career? Two reasons, it wasn't an occoupation that you can do in older ages (You can't swing your sword like you do in young ages when you're 40 years old) and it wasn't an occupation you can legally retire. Even Legal Pirates, working for a country (With Letter of Marque), never had (or dreamed) a long career. Governors come, governors go. Future was always very uncertain..

]

But it was worth of it. An average person would work 100 years, maybe 500 years in order to make so much wealth. A Wise Pirate would go for some expeditions; raid enemy towns, plunder enemy ships for some years, then divide up the plunder and would get retired after he made a satisfactory wealth and enjoy a peaceful, calm life with his parrot!



You can do the same too.

Just like a pirate, arbers can't legally retire either. William Hill or Pinnacle Sports won't give you retirement fund when you turned out 60 years old. You're on your own. You must have a retirement plan.

You must accumulate enough wealth in order to deserve/enjoy retirement in older ages. Even if it was possible to arb for your whole life, still you must stop after a point. Where you will take all this money? Remember, The coffin has no pocket!

So, my advice is..Have a retirement plan. And most important of all, make savings. Save money, it adds up!



Saving money may be hard for average people but it shouldn't be so hard for you since your case is totally different. You're saving automatically. Do you withdraw all your profits? Do you spend all money you make by arbing? Of course, not. You just spend/withdraw money you need. Rest? It accumulates! You're saving money automatic!

Who knows? Maybe you won't be able to arb after 2 or 3 years..I hope you can make a satisfactory wealth 'til that day. I wish you all beautiful (and profitable!) years in arbing.

Happy arbing!

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« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 04:01:31 PM by Yngwie/Sawyer » Logged

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xenix
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Re: Retirement
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2013, 07:12:29 AM »

you can always start writing professionally.. you seem to enjoy posting these small articles for us every now and then 
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ArberPro
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Re: Retirement
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2013, 11:57:22 AM »

I like his articles.
Here is a question how much do you think you need to retire ?
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pescu23
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Re: Retirement
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2013, 01:56:54 PM »

I like his articles.
Here is a question how much do you think you need to retire ?

1.000.000 €
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Arbusers
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Re: Retirement
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2013, 04:42:30 PM »

There is a poll above this thread.
Feel free to vote.
Thank you all, thank you Yngwie for nice articles.
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Tocko
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Re: Retirement
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2013, 11:17:49 AM »

is anyone close to retirement? :D
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Tocko
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Re: Retirement
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2013, 01:08:13 AM »

do you spend money form arbing or it's strictly for arbing and when reach some level then you spend it?
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Yngwie/Sawyer
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Yngwie/Sawyer

Re: Retirement
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2013, 11:31:14 AM »

do you spend money form arbing or it's strictly for arbing and when reach some level then you spend it?

Replying a little bit late since I'm away these days, on vacation. Will back to business thru August :D

About your question,

Well, it depends on size of your bankroll. I always say "Reinvest Your Profits" 'til you come to a point where keeping "more money" becomes unnecessary. For example, a trader with 40k capital is more likely to make more profits then a trader with 10k. But what happens when you have 100k? Let me tell you, you will rarely use your whole capital. Why not keep it at bank?

Increasing your bankroll is always good, it's like growing up your business. Imagine yourself like a businessman. You have 1 hotel. What you must do when you have more money? Of course, build another hotel. A businessman with 5 hotels, will earn more money then a businessman with 1 hotel.

However, there's a difference in arbing. Yes, probably you will be able to bet more arbs when you have a higher bankroll but not higher stakes. Why? Easy answer: bookie limits! You won't be able to bet 30,000€ at Stan James when you have 600,000€.

A big bankroll is always good for flexibility an high-volume trading but after a point, rest of the money becomes "dead money", staying inactive. This amount depends on your arbing strategy/style, your environment, how many accounts you have etc.

My advice is, always reinvest your profits, keep increasing your bankroll 'til you come to the point I mentioned. After that point, decide how much bankroll is enough for you and keep withdrawing rest of the money and make some other investments such as Real Estates etc..

I like his articles.
Here is a question how much do you think you need to retire ?

For me, I think it's more related with age then money. As I mentione in article, arbing/betting takes a serious time of your life, how you will replace it when you retired?

Money is never enough. You will need money for your whole life..and even after your life: For your child, for your grandchild. Money is never enough.

And making money is a sweet thing. You can't leave a roulette table if you're making profit every spin..

I would arb even if I had 10 Million Euros, seriously..

Unfortunately, I'm afraid it's not possible to arb forever. Soft books won't welcome you forever, sooner or later you will get limited in every book and your profits will decrease dramatically. Of course, we don't know what will happen in future, maybe you can find new books or new solutions, who knows?

'til next time,
take care,
enjoy the sun & summer!
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 11:59:52 AM by Yngwie » Logged

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Lansky
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Re: Retirement
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2013, 07:00:46 PM »

It seems to me like far too many people check out for good shortly after 'retiring'. I knew one poor bastard who retired on a Friday and was dead and buried a week later.

On the other hand I had one relative who was still working part time, drinking like a fish, and chasing women when he kicked the bucket at 95 (not to mention outlived two wives and married the third at 84).

So I would say it's far better to stay busy with something. Continuity. Let your interests evolve and follow them. Einstein said "The important thing is not to stop wondering."
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Yngwie/Sawyer
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Yngwie/Sawyer

Re: Retirement
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2013, 07:20:15 AM »

Einstein said "The important thing is not to stop wondering."

Yeah!

Never stop wondering ;)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 01:03:31 PM by Yngwie » Logged

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Yngwie/Sawyer
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Re: Retirement
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2013, 12:17:27 PM »

This environment is hostile, and if you ve been successful against bookmakers, that means that you are much more smarter than the average people. That means that you can make things. That means that sooner or later you will find a way to earn money again. You will find new sectors to beat, new systems to work with. That means that you are capable to do big things in your life.
The big question now, for a ''wise'' guy is...''what is next after gambling''?
Each and everyone of us, must give an answer.

You will find new sectors to beat, new systems to work with. This is what I'm thinking about future. Arbusers' words are very inspiring and heartening. I'm thinking about investing on Real Estates. Buy some real estates (specially commercial real estates) and rent them. Soon, you will have gold mines working for you even when you're sleeping. Alternatively, you can open a restaurant, maybe a cafe and start running your own business. Your options are endless!

My motto is, "Don't work for money. Make your money work for you."
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Re: Retirement
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2013, 02:25:29 PM »

This environment is hostile, and if you ve been successful against bookmakers, that means that you are much more smarter than the average people. That means that you can make things. That means that sooner or later you will find a way to earn money again. You will find new sectors to beat, new systems to work with. That means that you are capable to do big things in your life.
The big question now, for a ''wise'' guy is...''what is next after gambling''?
Each and everyone of us, must give an answer.

You will find new sectors to beat, new systems to work with. This is what I'm thinking about future. Arbusers' words are very inspiring and heartening. I'm thinking about investing on Real Estates. Buy some real estates (specially commercial real estates) and rent them. Soon, you will have gold mines working for you even when you're sleeping. Alternatively, you can open a restaurant, maybe a cafe and start running your own business. Your options are endless!

My motto is, "Don't work for money. Make your money work for you."


just one point to this. Dont run restaurant when you dont know nothing about it. It will be useless
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Yngwie/Sawyer
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Yngwie/Sawyer

Re: Retirement
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2013, 03:31:47 PM »

Quote
just one point to this. Dont run restaurant when you dont know nothing about it. It will be useless

You're right..but also wrong. Believe me, I saw good and bad examples. I saw people who know nothing about restaurant job and failed, yes. But I witnessed people who did good job with restaurant thing either. After many bad attempts of course, lol :D

Well, my profession is eating, not cooking. So restaurant thing doesn't suit me at the moment. Investing Real Estates is good.

 I think best thing to do, is to do best job you're doing. So let's keep betting&arbing :D

Quote
As you've said Before Yngwie, "you don't walk away from a roulette table if you're winning every spin", does there have to be a next? these alternatives you mention all involve risk (and stress),  many arbers (not me) by nature are not gamblers, yes when the coffin finally closes on Mr Arbitrage then it's wise to have an alternative but Mr Abritrage although getting older is still healthy, he's a bit temperamental and has his good days and bad days but plenty of life in him yet.

There has to be a next? We can't know! If conditions are right, we could arb forever. That would be wonderful but you must always have a PLAN B. Many arbers I know quitted arbing..but these guys were arbing in golden age of arbitrage.

Well, I know myself. Probably, I will make my first retirement attempt after 1 or 2 years but then I will start arbing again. Why? Because there isn't anything such as money satisfaction. Even if you guarentee a 5000€ monthly income (by investing Real Estates) still you will arb for more profit. Because making money is fun.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 03:42:37 PM by Yngwie/Sawyer » Logged

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Re: Retirement
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2013, 03:43:32 PM »

There is a certain cup of money that you can enable with arbing. For now, i believe that the maximum amount of money that you can use, is 120-130K.
What about the rest of the money? If you have surplus of funds, you will need other choices to invest.
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Yngwie/Sawyer
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Re: Retirement
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2013, 11:07:22 PM »

I agree with Arbusers. You can't use your whole bankroll for arbing after a point. When you come to that point, you must find some side/extra investments. Real Estates is good as I mentioned. Buy Real Estates and enjoy the rent money ;)
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