Matchbook hidden charges - Beware (page 2)

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qbet
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Re: Matchbook hidden charges - Beware
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2014, 12:59:18 PM »

Unlike betfair, Matchbook works with 3rd party market makers that are responsible for providing liquidity. I believe Smarkets have a similar strategy and of course we all know the story about a player being banned there. No such case here and there haven't been any serious complaints against Matchbook to make us think that they actually don't play fair. But you have to wonder how do they make money on such low commission overall and with their 0% com. markets and with no restrictions on withdrawals so far ?
If they do this to others they will do so quietly  and only to high-rollers I believe. They don't want the negative publicity a thread on SBR would bring and they would be forced to provide some kind of explanation.
Matchbook used to offer free book to book transfers to Pinnacle. If this is still in place it could be a way out of the 2% fee.
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Matchbook
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Re: Matchbook hidden charges - Beware
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2014, 02:31:58 PM »

Hi all,

Thanks for forwarding on the thread.

As has been correctly identified by portman, the issue here is not necessarily with turnover, or rollover, but with the frequency of e-wallet deposit and withdrawals. Matchbook's absorbs a reasonably significant fee on all of these transactions and continues to do so for the majority of customers.

However, because of the low 1% commission rate, the attritional nature of some customers, who deposit funds, bet them once, and withdraw again, mean that these customers cost us a lot of money. This can be exaggerated further by customers that continually bet short odds-on runners - e.g take a customer that deposits €10,000, bets on a team at 1.1, pays €10 in commission and then withdraws the entire €10,990 - the processing costs on this would be significantly more than the commission earned.

As an example, we had a customer in April, that cost us $8,000 (processing fees less commission paid).

Not only is this no way to run a successful business but Matchbook's long stated goal, is to have the lowest commission rate in the industry, with no additional charges on winners. To do this, and keep these rates for all customers, we need to keep our costs as low as possible.

These restrictions have been brought in, not to drive customers away from Matchbook, but to try and modify customer behaviour so that everyone can to continue to benefit from the lowest commission rates and the ever increasing liquidity on Matchbook.

We're quite happy to review individual cases ongoing, and change the limits we have put in place, if a customers activity has changed and they are contributing positively to the exchange. However, please bear in mind what I have said already, and assess your own betting and funding activity before asking us to review.

Thanks,

Matchbook Mike

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yorkjoss
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Re: Matchbook hidden charges - Beware
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2014, 02:56:26 PM »

"all good things come to an end" ewallet cashback is/was free money it was never going to last forever, Matchbook were wrong
to "wrongly take"  Sportoboy's money and should do the decent thing and refund him, sure I can see their reasoning but you have to inform your customer before  you penalise them, this didn't happen here, Matchbook and other exchanges need arbers, we are good for liquidity, as a gesture of fairness he should be refunded, he now knows the rules and charges for future withdrawals from Matchbook, prove you are a "decent company" Matchbook and one we arber's can trust.
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drhoo
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Re: Matchbook hidden charges - Beware
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2014, 04:10:15 PM »

how much does it cost you exactly if a customer deposits, say 10k from Skrill. and if the customer withdraws the 10k to skrill?
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sportoboy
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Re: Matchbook hidden charges - Beware
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2014, 05:19:55 PM »

Welcome to the forum Mike. It's always good to have a representative of a bookmaker here and I'm glad that someone responded to this thread (contrary to your customer support that ignored my emails).

Quote
However, because of the low 1% commission rate, the attritional nature of some customers, who deposit funds, bet them once, and withdraw again, mean that these customers cost us a lot of money. This can be exaggerated further by customers that continually bet short odds-on runners - e.g take a customer that deposits €10,000, bets on a team at 1.1, pays €10 in commission and then withdraws the entire €10,990 - the processing costs on this would be significantly more than the commission earned.

I don't know if you are informed about the activity of my account, but I haven't deposited funds, bet them once and withdrew again. As said in the first post, I've deposited €48.000 and made a turnover of €72.000. That's 1,5 times my deposit and €72.000 is not a small amount. Also, I haven't placed any bet on short odds-on runners. My bets were:
€4840 @ 2.11 Tottenham - Fuhlam -1 handicap (lost)
€2083 @ 2.15 Augsburg - Hertha +0,5 handicap  (won)
€9683 @ 2.10 Chelsea - Sunderland +1.75 handicap  (won)
€30717 @ 2.03 Bayern - Real Madrid +0,75 handicap (won)
€25301 @ 2.06 Chelsea - Atletico - 0,25 handicap  (lost)

So, I did neither that
Quote
who deposit funds, bet them once, and withdraw again
nor that
Quote
customers that continually bet short odds-on runners
, but you did remove however 740 euros from my account. If this is a honest mistake, pleace correct it and refund the charges to my account. If not, can you care to explain to the community why you did this?
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Arbusers
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Re: Matchbook hidden charges - Beware
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2014, 05:56:27 PM »

Matchbook clearly states that has the right to impose fees to deposits/withdrawals. However, a profecional customer, and I believe Matchbook has many, would like to see more specific rules and parameters.
I believe that:
-Matchbook should impose a minimum roll over requirement upon which deposits/withdrawals will be free. This is the same tactic that Pinnacle imposed. The roll over requirement could be a combination of odds and stakes. If there is no such roll over requirement, I believe that other clients will be in the same position like Sportoboy's in the future. Matchbook will have to explain again and again this situation. A situation that no-one wants. This is up to Matchbook that has to take into account other marketing factors.
-Matchbook should make an one time exception and absord these 740 euros, or give the chance to the player to withdraw his balance in a shorter period of time.

FYI, if there is no e-wallet abuse, players should opt for a Matchbook account via AsianConnect, where there are no fees for deposits/withdrawals.
E-wallets impose fees to bookmakers and exchange that varies from 0.7% to 3% depending on the bookmaker.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 06:03:50 PM by Arbusers » Logged
sportoboy
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Re: Matchbook hidden charges - Beware
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2014, 06:01:33 PM »

Quote
-Matchbook should make an one time exception and absord these 740 euros, or give the chance to the player to withdraw his balance in a shorter period of time.

To clear this up again, I wasn't given a free withdrawal per week or month option. Even if I withdrew my money after one year, a 2% charge would be applied. This email info with the charge was sent after I asked my first withdrawal and it was applied retrospectively to it.
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pedro
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Re: Matchbook hidden charges - Beware
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2014, 06:34:07 PM »

€4840 @ 2.11 Tottenham - Fuhlam -1 handicap (lost)
€2083 @ 2.15 Augsburg - Hertha +0,5 handicap  (won)
€9683 @ 2.10 Chelsea - Sunderland +1.75 handicap  (won)
€30717 @ 2.03 Bayern - Real Madrid +0,75 handicap (won)
€25301 @ 2.06 Chelsea - Atletico - 0,25 handicap  (lost)

I'm guessing the "problem" is that you didn't pay a single cent in commission
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anormal1992
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anormal1992

Re: Matchbook hidden charges - Beware
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2014, 10:13:33 PM »

€4840 @ 2.11 Tottenham - Fuhlam -1 handicap (lost)
€2083 @ 2.15 Augsburg - Hertha +0,5 handicap  (won)
€9683 @ 2.10 Chelsea - Sunderland +1.75 handicap  (won)
€30717 @ 2.03 Bayern - Real Madrid +0,75 handicap (won)
€25301 @ 2.06 Chelsea - Atletico - 0,25 handicap  (lost)

I'm guessing the "problem" is that you didn't pay a single cent in commission
Yeap....i suppose even matching your own bets on AH beetwen 2 "accounts" may be the case :D
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qbet
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Re: Matchbook hidden charges - Beware
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2014, 11:32:30 PM »

€4840 @ 2.11 Tottenham - Fuhlam -1 handicap (lost)
€2083 @ 2.15 Augsburg - Hertha +0,5 handicap  (won)
€9683 @ 2.10 Chelsea - Sunderland +1.75 handicap  (won)
€30717 @ 2.03 Bayern - Real Madrid +0,75 handicap (won)
€25301 @ 2.06 Chelsea - Atletico - 0,25 handicap  (lost)

I'm guessing the "problem" is that you didn't pay a single cent in commission
In the first quarter of the year Matchbook was offering 0% commission on all football markets so I am guessing there were many others that also didn't pay a cent also but were not penalized. It is not the player's fault that Matchbook run promotions that make them no money.
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portman
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Re: Matchbook hidden charges - Beware
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2014, 12:00:43 AM »

In my opinion, Matchbook must compensate sportoboy for the fact that he was not been informed well before this rule was about to be applied. It is somewhat arbitrary to act first and inform later and bookies are exercising this terrible practice quite often. By doing so they are getting advantage from the power role they hold against us. However this draws the line between professional reliable and trustworthy bookies that we professionals can trust our funds, and dodgy shops that we rather prefer to stay away. I have excellent experience so far from Matchbook and i will keep on supporting them to grow, however in this case i stand strongly to sportoboy's side simply because i have also felt this sense on unfairness sometimes in the past. Matchbook must return the funds to his account and apply the rule from the next withdrawal. Don't allow this simple argument to spoil your reputation.

e.g.: You do NOT run the lowest commission rate in the market since you are charging commissions on BOTH winning and losing bets. You apply identical rate to what Smarkets charges but by simply applying a different structure. And in my opinion yours is far worse since I cannot trade. Clear words.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 12:12:34 AM by portman » Logged
mck
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Re: Matchbook hidden charges - Beware
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2014, 08:06:01 AM »

So you didn`t pay a single cent in commisions and expect to get free withdrawal?
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voodoo
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Re: Matchbook hidden charges - Beware
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2014, 09:27:06 AM »

They advertise the 0% com and they are proud of it, it is a nice promo. So, who cares if a customer doesn't pay a fee there? In this case they decided not to offer a free withdrawal without previous warning. It was his first withdrawal. It is very simple to understand who is right and who is wrong.
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Matchbook
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Re: Matchbook hidden charges - Beware
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2014, 10:45:07 PM »

how much does it cost you exactly if a customer deposits, say 10k from Skrill. and if the customer withdraws the 10k to skrill?

Hi drhoo,

I'm afraid I can't disclose the exact figure.

Thanks,

Mike
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Matchbook
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Re: Matchbook hidden charges - Beware
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2014, 10:46:47 PM »

Welcome to the forum Mike. It's always good to have a representative of a bookmaker here and I'm glad that someone responded to this thread (contrary to your customer support that ignored my emails).

Quote
However, because of the low 1% commission rate, the attritional nature of some customers, who deposit funds, bet them once, and withdraw again, mean that these customers cost us a lot of money. This can be exaggerated further by customers that continually bet short odds-on runners - e.g take a customer that deposits €10,000, bets on a team at 1.1, pays €10 in commission and then withdraws the entire €10,990 - the processing costs on this would be significantly more than the commission earned.

I don't know if you are informed about the activity of my account, but I haven't deposited funds, bet them once and withdrew again. As said in the first post, I've deposited €48.000 and made a turnover of €72.000. That's 1,5 times my deposit and €72.000 is not a small amount. Also, I haven't placed any bet on short odds-on runners. My bets were:
€4840 @ 2.11 Tottenham - Fuhlam -1 handicap (lost)
€2083 @ 2.15 Augsburg - Hertha +0,5 handicap  (won)
€9683 @ 2.10 Chelsea - Sunderland +1.75 handicap  (won)
€30717 @ 2.03 Bayern - Real Madrid +0,75 handicap (won)
€25301 @ 2.06 Chelsea - Atletico - 0,25 handicap  (lost)

So, I did neither that
Quote
who deposit funds, bet them once, and withdraw again
nor that
Quote
customers that continually bet short odds-on runners
, but you did remove however 740 euros from my account. If this is a honest mistake, pleace correct it and refund the charges to my account. If not, can you care to explain to the community why you did this?

Hi sportoboy,

I don't have your username - can you e-mail accounts@ and just ask them to pass your account on to the review team again and I'll get them to take a look at it.

Thanks,

Mike
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