new point of consumption tax in the uk

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yorkjoss
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yorkjoss

new point of consumption tax in the uk
« on: September 04, 2014, 04:23:19 PM »

to all the UK based arbers, you may well know or not know about the impending new tax on bookmakers being
imposed very soon by the UK government, the main aim of this new tax was to target the large uk bookmakers
who have based themselves overseas to avoid uk tax, the new law states that uk tax is due if the wager is placed
in the UK regardless of where the bookmaker claims to be based, Malta, Gibraltar etc already 12bet and Tipico
are pulling the plug on UK customers that I know of but I am sure there are others so I thought I'd start this thread
on the impact of this new tax on UK based arbers, UK arbers have been fortunate enough to live in a very arber
friendly country, is this about to change?
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Arbusers
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2014, 04:52:16 PM »

Is it starting from 1st of January 2015? Or not.
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yorkjoss
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2014, 06:27:45 PM »

Is it starting from 1st of January 2015? Or not.

1st december 2014 I believe, anyone from outside uk is not affected

the taxation does not affect individuals, there is no personal tax on a single bet, any profit from a  bet placed by a resident of the uk is liable for uk tax regardless of where the bookmaker is based, before the new law if the bookmaker was based in malta or gibraltar as most uk books are and there only there for tax avoidance purposes, the tax is on bookmaker profits not the individual, what it means is that bookmakers wherever they are from will have to pay more tax on their UK customers which
makes the UK less attractive to them hence 12bet's pullout despite all their football sponsorship in the UK, this new law is targeting Uk books who moved abroad for tax avoidance unfortunately for us arbers every bookmaker is affected even the
foreign one's.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2014, 06:36:19 PM by yorkjoss » Logged
yorkjoss
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2014, 10:29:50 PM »


[/quote]

ok, but i still do not get it , how they want to control this tax...you know if UK citizens open accounts in for example 5dimes how UK will push 5dimes to pay this tax.
[/quote]

quite simply, if any bookmaker does not pay the new tax on transactions with a UK customer then they will have their license
revoked and will be unable to operate in the UK, every bookmaker who has UK customers will now have to pay more tax to
the UK government than they did previously, the concerning aspect of this for UK arbers is will others follow 12bet's example
and decide for business reasons to exit the UK? I hope not
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cristi13
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2014, 02:49:30 AM »


quite simply, if any bookmaker does not pay the new tax on transactions with a UK customer then they will have their license
revoked and will be unable to operate in the UK

How could they revoke licenses out of UK jurisdiction? What happens when 5dimes doesn't give 5 dimes about this uk tax and continues to operate as before?
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Efurten
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2014, 08:38:49 AM »

SBOBET to Discontinue Betting Services for Your Account from 15 September 2014

It is with regret that we wish to advise you that we are no longer able to continue to offer you the betting services with SBOBET.

This unfortunate circumstance has been brought about by the changes to the legislation in your country of residence with regard to online gambling. Unfortunately, it will now be necessary to close your SBOBET Account with effect from 15 September 2014.

However, all outstanding bets you have already placed for events scheduled after 15 September 2014 will not be affected and will be settled once they have been determined. In this event, your Account will remain available for login after 15 September 2014, solely for the purposes of withdrawal of funds but no further betting can be carried out.

If you have any funds remaining in your SBOBET Account, the Account will remain accessible to you for the purposes of withdrawing funds. Kindly sign in, check your balance and make your withdrawal request immediately.

For Accounts with no outstanding bets, if we do not receive a withdrawal request by 30 September 2014, it will be necessary for us to close your SBOBET Account and arrange for the remaining funds to be returned to you via your current nominated payment option.

We wish to take this opportunity to thank you for your fantastic support in the past and would be more than pleased to be of service to you again in the event that there is a change in the regulatory landscape of your country of residence.

In the meantime, if you have any questions, please contact us at support@sbobet.com. Alternatively, you can contact SBOBET Support Team by phone at Europe: +44 1624 721960 and by fax at Europe: +44 1624 721966.
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yorkjoss
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2014, 09:08:31 AM »

this is horrendous, in the UK we had is too good, that's why I'm sure many arbers moved  to UK, I hope arbattck
is right and we can use an agent but if the agent's customer home address is UK then the tax will still be due
and agents may too exclude UK customers, this is so very bad and will change arbing forever
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Arbusers
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2014, 09:22:13 AM »

Even though it is too early, I believe that this new law will be completely implemented and a (big) number of bookmakers will treat UK clients the same way they did with other big markets, such as Greece, Italy, Spain, Germany, France etc.
This is a major development in the arbing world. Let me remind you that for most players, arbing started in 2001 when UK bookmakers moved to Gibraltar and Malta. Now we are having new factors in the game.
I know at least 2 dozens Greek, Italian, Spanish etc players that moved to the UK in order to avoid their national antigambling laws. It seems to me that they will again have to move to new countries.
The agent style betting will be a great solution for UK players, but this will not replace WillHill, Ladbrokes and all the other soft bookmakers that are so valuable for arbers. That said, SBObet's, Betfair's, Pinnacle's etc withdrawals is not an issue for UK gamblers. The issue is for the rest of the bookmakers.
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yorkjoss
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2014, 09:23:11 AM »

but if the agent's customer home address is UK then the tax will still be due
and agents may too exclude UK customers

Aren't accounts with agents annonymous? I mean, the bookmakers don't know where the Agents' customers live? And i don't know if Agents would be lilable for this tax?


I have just emailed premium tradings about that very question, I have never used an agent before and  can't see any way around this if you use your own home address, I am sure they have many existing UK customers who will want to continue
to use these betting sites which have left so maybe there is an answer unfortunately for uk arbers there are some very good
bookmakers from Europe who we won't be able to use any more if they too pull out, as I said horrendous for UK arbers
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yorkjoss
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2014, 09:40:57 AM »



I have just emailed premium tradings about that very question,
[/quote]

Please could you let us know what they say? it would be good to get an answer on their stance on this.
[/quote]

of course I will but before that if any knowledgeable person on this site for instance Arbuser, fully clarifies the situation
then I will only post if it were to contradict what has already been written, for Uk arbers and arbing in general this is an
enormous problem, the soft UK bookmkakers are being targeted by UK legislation bigtime, they are already reeling for
an increased tax on FOBT which they so rely on in the UK, I noticed after this that Willhill and Ladbrokes became very much
less arb friendly, now all UK bookmkakers are going to be hurt by this new tax making them even more less friendly to arbers,
added to this many smaller European bookmakers will now exit the UK, arbing has just became so much harder, I am so
glad I was here for some of the good times.
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Arbusers
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2014, 09:44:42 AM »

I cant clarify any situation here. I have the same sources of knowledge like all of you people. However, it would be good to have PT position or AC.
I believe both will deal with UK gamblers the same way they deal with the rest of the planet, so i dont expect any surprises by their answers.
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Efurten
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2014, 09:49:53 AM »

I think the problem is not Sbobet or Pinnacle. Using agents and VPN (if necessary), this problem will be solved.

The main problem will be the number of soft bookmakers available to arb.

Today we have a huge number of available bookmakers and I guess the list will be reduced in the next months to the following:

- Ladbrokes
- Bet365
- WilliamsHill
- Betfred
- Winner.com
- Skybet
- Coral
- 10bet
- Stan James
- Totesport
- Boyle Sports
- Bwin
- Unibet

I wouldn't expect many more



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kapetan1122
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2014, 11:28:03 AM »

Can somebody explain to me what kind of tax is going on here?
What % is in game and will they take this % on every bet you made or every just pure profit from every bet or how its going to work?
We have something similar in our country for street shops where you need to pay 10% for every winning over 100€ and it kill every oportunity for serious bettors.
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whitesnake
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2014, 11:53:24 AM »

yorkjoss, will this affect Betfair as well?
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SticyBandit
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2014, 11:53:54 AM »

It is the bookmakers that will get taxed, not the bettors. So any profits that bookmakers make from their UK clients will be taxed at 15%

The problem for us is how will this extra cost that bookmakers have to absorb be passed on to the bettors - bigger margins, less bonuses and closing UK accounts are likely IMO

If whole thing is that bookies must pay 15 % from net winnings from their UK clients than I think it's not a such big thing. UK clients are surely generating profit for them, so 15 % tax should not be such a big thing.
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