Arbusers

I have just received a reply from paypal in my 2nd paypal account too, they wrote:

"Dear T**** M****,

Thank you for contacting PayPal regarding PayPal exchanging your information’s with Hungarian or any tax office under the CRS law.

My name is Joanna and I am happy to answer your email today.

Mr.M****i, please note that PayPal don’t  exchange any information’s regarding your account with Hungarian or any tax office . Any tax related information’s you will need to provide them yourself to the Hungarian tax office .

It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing PayPal.

Yours sincerely,
Joanna
PayPal

This is complete chaos

I asked in the reply "does your message means paypal not subject of the CRS (Common Reporting Standard) hence do not report?"...

In the reply they told the paypal is not subject to the CRS and they don't report any informations about my account to the tax offices and it is my obligation to report my income etc. etc.

So from the reply I am sure they don't report the account - it is already 03/07/2017 and I think if they really sent the details to the tax office then they should know and say "yes we reported your .... "

Well, then how do you explain the answers I got from the escalations office seated in the UK after numerous  email exchange with conventional PP customer support and even phone call to identify my exact questions?

This was a while ago, so maybe in the meantime they figured out that crs does not apply to them? 

"Well, then how do you explain the answers I got from the escalations office seated in the UK after numerous  email exchange with conventional PP customer support and even phone call to identify my exact questions?"

It is simple as 1 * 1 - they had no clue about it because the paypal updated the CRS in their policy for safety if they have to report, but no, this makes some ppl in the customer support beleive that paypal report while they won't - so they said yes...


But then let me to ask how do you explain the following things? Please explain this 4 things then ...

1. Till now everyone in their customer service everyone told me they are not subject of the CRS agreement!

2. They do not asked the customers TIN code and did not sent a  CRS Entity Self-Certification Form? Why  they did not tried to ask the customers in the EU about their tax residence? That is their obligation if they participate in CRS.

3. If they participate in CRS then why didn't they told me what details they collected and sent about me to the luxembour tax office until 30th of June while there is a sentence in their policy where they updated that they MAY report under the CRS:

"You have the right to access the information that is exchanged with the Luxembourg tax authorities and, as the case may be, a right to rectify this information. To exercise these rights, you should proceed in accordance with section 11 of the Privacy Policy."

I followed the instructions of the section 11 of the Privacy Policy and contacted with paypal regarding my informations reported to the Luxembourg tax office and the reply was what I wrote in the previous comments so THEY DO NOT SEND MY INFORMATIONS TO ANY TAX OFFICES...

So do they lie and they have already sent it? I doubt! If they did not tell me the truth I could even sue them because they did not let me to exercise my rights and I can prove it with messages and sreenshoots!

4. How do you explain that they do not send CRS entity self certification to their new members who sign up after 01/01/2016 while banks but I have already made a new account on paypal and THEY DID NOT ASKED MY TIN OR TAX RESIDENCE...

Read the first sentences of the form: www.crs.hsbc.com/~/media/crs/pdfs/crs-e_entities_self_cert_form.pdf

"To help protect the integrity of tax systems, governments around the world are introducing a new information gathering and reporting requirement for financial institutions. This is known as the  Common Reporting Standard (the CRS).

Under the CRS, we are required to determine where an entity is ‘tax resident’ (this will usually be where you are liable to pay corporate income taxes). If you are tax resident outside the country where your account is held, we may need to give the national tax authority this information, along with information relating to your accounts. That may then be shared between different countries’ tax authorities."

Banks which are subject of CRS are don't let you to get bank account them without sending this form...

I won't show again all examples but u probably know the OTP bank, so this is from their website (all else banks under CRS require that document on the same manner)...

OTP bank:

https://www.otpbank.hu/static/portal/sw/file/CRS_DAC2_Lakossagi_hirdetmeny_EN_20170601.pdf

"New clients are required to make a written declaration on their residence for
tax purposes, without exception.

The Bank will not establish a contractual relationship with clients failing to
make the declaration.

So if they were the subject of CRS then they can't let us to open paypal accounts or use it without sending them the CRS Self Entity Declaration document after 01/01/2016 ...

So with simple logic - they won't report because they do not collect the necessary details for CRS report and do not follow the CRS guidelines

Yes true. Good work Clickcents1991.

from yesterday when I go to my Skrill account, I get the notification: "A new kind of verification ... blah, blah ..."

The notice itself appears and disappears, about every minut. When notice gone, my account is verified. When it is here, need verification.

Verification is always unavailable "try in next 15 minutes"

Otherwise, my account has been verified long ago.

Do you have any experience with that?

Clickcents1991 wrote: "Well, then how do you explain the answers I got from the escalations office seated in the UK after numerous  email exchange with conventional PP customer support and even phone call to identify my exact questions?"

It is simple as 1 * 1 - they had no clue about it because the paypal updated the CRS in their policy for safety if they have to report, but no, this makes some ppl in the customer support beleive that paypal report while they won't - so they said yes...


But then let me to ask how do you explain the following things? Please explain this 4 things then ...

1. Till now everyone in their customer service everyone told me they are not subject of the CRS agreement!

2. They do not asked the customers TIN code and did not sent a  CRS Entity Self-Certification Form? Why  they did not tried to ask the customers in the EU about their tax residence? That is their obligation if they participate in CRS.

3. If they participate in CRS then why didn't they told me what details they collected and sent about me to the luxembour tax office until 30th of June while there is a sentence in their policy where they updated that they MAY report under the CRS:

"You have the right to access the information that is exchanged with the Luxembourg tax authorities and, as the case may be, a right to rectify this information. To exercise these rights, you should proceed in accordance with section 11 of the Privacy Policy."

I followed the instructions of the section 11 of the Privacy Policy and contacted with paypal regarding my informations reported to the Luxembourg tax office and the reply was what I wrote in the previous comments so THEY DO NOT SEND MY INFORMATIONS TO ANY TAX OFFICES...

So do they lie and they have already sent it? I doubt! If they did not tell me the truth I could even sue them because they did not let me to exercise my rights and I can prove it with messages and sreenshoots!

4. How do you explain that they do not send CRS entity self certification to their new members who sign up after 01/01/2016 while banks but I have already made a new account on paypal and THEY DID NOT ASKED MY TIN OR TAX RESIDENCE...

Read the first sentences of the form: www.crs.hsbc.com/~/media/crs/pdfs/crs-e_entities_self_cert_form.pdf

"To help protect the integrity of tax systems, governments around the world are introducing a new information gathering and reporting requirement for financial institutions. This is known as the  Common Reporting Standard (the CRS).

Under the CRS, we are required to determine where an entity is ‘tax resident’ (this will usually be where you are liable to pay corporate income taxes). If you are tax resident outside the country where your account is held, we may need to give the national tax authority this information, along with information relating to your accounts. That may then be shared between different countries’ tax authorities."

Banks which are subject of CRS are don't let you to get bank account them without sending this form...

I won't show again all examples but u probably know the OTP bank, so this is from their website (all else banks under CRS require that document on the same manner)...

OTP bank:

https://www.otpbank.hu/static/portal/sw/file/CRS_DAC2_Lakossagi_hirdetmeny_EN_20170601.pdf

"New clients are required to make a written declaration on their residence for
tax purposes, without exception.

The Bank will not establish a contractual relationship with clients failing to
make the declaration.

So if they were the subject of CRS then they can't let us to open paypal accounts or use it without sending them the CRS Self Entity Declaration document after 01/01/2016 ...

So with simple logic - they won't report because they do not collect the necessary details for CRS report and do not follow the CRS guidelines

But you do not use a bank account on paypal although you open an account there. In case if you open an account, you will automatically need to submit your real name written on the bank account. Connecting your account to a bank account still doesnt mean that you are living in that country I guess.

Anyways, my intention is not telling you that you are wrong. Firstly, I got an email from Skrill last week about the source of wealth decleration, the week after closing my neteller account. They threaten me with deactivating my already closed account if I do not send them the form back in 14days. I was a bit scared of course, since I used that account for depositing and withdrawing to several poker and betting websites. There is an amount of money that is not declared obviously, not for trying to cheat but basically because of messy informations in the system.

I have some friends living in Budapest and doing the same thing. I am planning to get some consultancy from a tax law office because I do not want to do any illegal activity.
@clickcents1991; Recently they made some Airbnb hosts pay big tax penalties for not paying income tax in Hungary. It shouldnt be too hard to do the same for Paypal in my opinions. But in these 2websites, actual bank accounts are being used. In Neteller/Skrill, you dont need to connect your bank account to your e-wallet. That is the only difference I can see. Also, in my opinion opening an online account is very loose, easy to cheat which makes it harder to put e-wallet accounts at the same category as actual bank accounts.

I have another important question; do you know which year should be reported back to Paysafe/Neteller for source of wealth decleration; only 2016 or last 3 months or since the beginning of the time you opened your account? Also, do you know how many years is the time in EU till the tax debts are not valid anymore? 5 years?

"But you do not use a bank account on paypal although you open an account there. In case if you open an account, you will automatically need to submit your real name written on the bank account. Connecting your account to a bank account still doesnt mean that you are living in that country I guess. "

Well on paypal it is still possible to open an account with fake name and keep deposit on it under the limits made because of the EU anti-laundering policy...

As I told before, the paypal is subject of the EU-'s anti-money laundering rules and they have to ask a valid ID card and proof of adress for removing the account limits...

After these all, it is obvious, if paypal become the subject of CRS agreement, then they have to follow the CRS guidlines and get the necessry details from their account holders (eg. TIN, valid name, tax residency) but at least they have to require the CRS self certification documents from new account holders from OECD countries after 01/01/2016..

So from all of these it is logical they won't report automatically under the CRS this is what they told me after requesting the informations what they exchanged with the luxembourg tax authorities about me until 30/06/2017 as other banks under CRS do...

They told they do exchange any details automatically under the CRS they only send these informations to the tax office for request ...

"Connecting your account to a bank account still doesnt mean that you are living in that country I guess."

This is totally right, for example if you open a bank account in germany but live in Hungary and withdrew your many to the german bank account then you can avoid paying taxes in Hungary if the NAV (local tax office) doesn't discover it...


"Anyways, my intention is not telling you that you are wrong. Firstly, I got an email from Skrill last week about the source of wealth decleration, the week after closing my neteller account. They threaten me with deactivating my already closed account if I do not send them the form back in 14days. I was a bit scared of course, since I used that account for depositing and withdrawing to several poker and betting websites. There is an amount of money that is not declared obviously, not for trying to cheat but basically because of messy informations in the system.  It shouldnt be too hard to do the same for Paypal in my opinions. But in these 2websites, actual bank accounts are being used. In Neteller/Skrill, you dont need to connect your bank account to your e-wallet. That is the only difference I can see. Also, in my opinion opening an online account is very loose, easy to cheat which makes it harder to put e-wallet accounts at the same category as actual bank accounts. "

Well I did not made researche about Skrill hence I cannot tell any opinion but about paypal I am sure they won't report the accounts....

If they sent you request or CRS self certification document then you can be sure they will report... this is all what I can talk about it...


"@clickcents1991; Recently they made some Airbnb hosts pay big tax penalties for not paying income tax in Hungary."

Yes this is what they do with UBER drivers and Airbnb users either, they got some month patience from the tax office for check/change their tax reports submitted in the last years and pay the unpaid taxes +30% without punishment... if they miss this "2nd change" than the NAV will start to punish them...

Btw this is the reason why I paid 15+27% taxes after my internet payments...

Anyway the NAV knew about UBER and Airbn businesses and they decided to check these and they requested the information of uber/airbn users including payments and they got these informations...

It is sure they could get the details of Hungarian paypal users on the same way but if the paypal report them automatically then they will sure announce the check of paypal users, if not then they probably won't start to request these informations on their own because they have enough cases right now...

" Also, in my opinion opening an online account is very loose, easy to cheat which makes it harder to put e-wallet accounts at the same category as actual bank accounts. "

Yes I agree in 100% with this sentence!


"I have another important question; do you know which year should be reported back to Paysafe/Neteller for source of wealth decleration; only 2016 or last 3 months or since the beginning of the time you opened your account?"


If they report under the CRS than they will report automatically only from 2016, but if the tax office requist it than they can send the last 5 years payment information, but I heard example when the NAV got 10 years old banking informations too, just they cannot punish for older cases than 6 years (expect if there were a big tax elavtion what the law can punish with more than 5 years)

" Also, do you know how many years is the time in EU till the tax debts are not valid anymore? 5 years?"

Tax debts are valid for 5 years but in Hungary they can make it longer with 6 months

But if you asked how many years can be checked by the tax offices then my reply is the following...

In Hungary the lapse time is 5 years, if you had income in 2010 what you had to report until 20/05/2011but you failed to do it, then the lapse time starts at 31/12/2011 so you will be in safe after 31/12/2016...

I think this is the same in the whole EU, so the year when you got the income + 6 years ...

Hello! Does anyone know if Entropay is subjected to CRS/AEOI?

I've sent them an email asking if they were participating in CRS or sharing information with thirds in any other way. This is their response:

Hello Jurgen,

Thank you for contacting us.

Kindly note that any information located on the account is not shared with third party members. All of the information is kept strictly confidential.

You can read about this in our T&Cs, clause no. 07 (YOUR DETAILS) and no.18(PERSONAL DATA).

For further questions check out our helpdesk at http://support.entropay.com

Your friends at Entropay,
Rebecca

Is this relieable?

"Hello! Does anyone know if Entropay is subjected to CRS/AEOI?"

I did not see anything about CRS in the terms & conditions/privacy policy but you should check it too, if there is nothing about CRS in these than probably they won't report?

Did they sent you any CRS self certification document or did they asked you about your tax residency?

From my experience Entropay shares information with bookies, even tough they claim their virtual cards are anonymous.
Have a friend that used them on bet365 with success but one day didn´t get paid and they asked for bank proof funding entropay account in the same name as acc holder.

Hm, I see. Also they only have a virtual CC. I was looking for an e-wallet that isnt subjected to CRS and offers a credit card for ATM withdrawals. I do no longer want to use Skrill/Neteller as I no longer trust them. Does anyone know an alternative?

JX123 wrote: Hm, I see. Also they only have a virtual CC. I was looking for an e-wallet that isnt subjected to CRS and offers a credit card for ATM withdrawals. I do no longer want to use Skrill/Neteller as I no longer trust them. Does anyone know an alternative?

Company from USA (USA did not sign CRS): https://www.payoneer.com

jarora wrote:

JX123 wrote: Hm, I see. Also they only have a virtual CC. I was looking for an e-wallet that isnt subjected to CRS and offers a credit card for ATM withdrawals. I do no longer want to use Skrill/Neteller as I no longer trust them. Does anyone know an alternative?

Company from USA (USA did not sign CRS): https://www.payoneer.com

thanks, good to know!