Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account

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lukaszs
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lukaszs

Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« on: March 24, 2016, 07:54:29 PM »

The 10th of March I spotted some juicy odds on lay side in one market. I wouldn’t touch it in any bookie but my logic was suggesting me that Smarkets wasn't a bookmaker, but a betting exchange.  It’s a nature of each of exchanges (not only betting ones) and prices anomalities happen in low liquidity markets. I decided to matched these orders. All my bets were settled correctly.

I was very surprised when a week later (March the 19th) I noticed similar anomalies in the other markets. In one hour I took positions in 4 markets. After that my account was suspended and I was informed that all bets from these 4 markets will be voided. Smarket’s system settled bets correctly but they took winnings manually from markets they mentioned (33483 E).

After exchanging some emails with Smarket support I knew the reasons : the prices were outside fair market boundaries and they don’t feel bets were made in good faith.

I read carefully Smarkets' T&C:
“25. You are fully responsible for the bets placed on Smarkets. Smarkets will never question you about the relevance of the bets you wish to place and will not be held responsible for mistakes that could have been made during the placing of such bets, including the stake amounts, price or side of the bet.”
In my case Smarkets acted against rule 25. They started asking questions about the relevance of the bets and they felt responsible for client's mistake. Intervention in the market and voiding my bets prove, that they reduced the risk of a client who miscalculated his risks.
“15 A mistake regarding the details of a bet placement will not influence the validity of the bet.”
No comment needed here.

I tried to guess why theirs decision were different (bets from 10th were settled and one from week after voided) They answered that they felt that there was a significant difference between both situations. No more details. And I cannot see any logical consistency in their behaviour.At the same market's anomalies they operate in different ways. In this way we never know which bet will be valid and which won't and you perfectly know how important it is. Especially if it comes to arbitrage activities and the exchanges.

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dealer wins
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Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2016, 10:42:12 PM »

All bets should stand, its a betting exchange.

You need to take this further.
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Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2016, 11:41:13 PM »

Ouch, pretty bad case for them and you. Their reputation is at stake and your profit is at stake for yourself.
The reason they void those bets, is because THEIR bots misfired and you took money from them actually. Most of the time, it is them and their own in-house market makers putting money in the markets there. They wouldn't void those bets if it was some bloke from Liverpool who had layed them there, I am sure.
Good luck buddy, hope you take your money. Take it to Gambling Commission and Malta Gambling Commission is need be. Post it all over forums/blogs and let them know you will continue doing so until they give you the money.
Their reputation is at stake, and that is quite important for a company like Smarkets.
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tiha_patnja
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Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2016, 11:46:55 PM »

It is a lot of money even if you earn 10k+ a month so no question about that. Did you let the bet go inplay or did you wait for it to return to the normal price and then hedge? Because if something crazy happened on an event for example Montenegro - Russia, bets can be voided.

I have spotted a mistake happening there on one type of market but because of the nautre of the mistake I doubt that Smarkets has their bot on the exchange because the mistake is really a NOOB one that every bot should manage.
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Alabaster
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Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2016, 08:36:52 AM »

Unfortunately, there were at least 10  completly wrong markets on Smarkets last 14 days, but not only on Smarkets.
My friends account on Betfair also suspended with 2.000 EUR.
He was accused for fraudulent activity because he bet on corner market live (odd was 1.40,14% arbitrage) and won only 200 EUR. They didnt void that bets, they closed his account and retained his deposit.
I think it was because some of people inside Betfair bet on that market.
Will MGA help him? I dont think so.
Anytime I made mistake on exchanges, I contacted their costumer service, and I got answer that matched bets cant be voided, and every costumer has right to take any price.
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Alfa1234
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Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2016, 09:02:24 AM »

Who decides what's "wrong"?  What % can an odd be away from the market average before it is considered wrong?  I'd really like to find out what Smarkets has to say about this.  If they are going to be voiding obvious mistakes, I'm going to be betting an obviously wrong odd once in a while and if it loses, I'll send them a mail to ask them to void the bet as it was a mistake on my part.  Not if it wins though...
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tiha_patnja
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Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2016, 02:20:24 PM »

Well, the point is that if you void such bets, then there is no point on having an exchange. Because every time you lose you can say "I made a mistake" so no debate abut that for sure
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Thordin
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Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2016, 07:42:43 PM »

Exchanges  banning people, what a time to be alive
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lukaszs
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Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2016, 08:13:14 PM »

Exchanges  banning people, what a time to be alive
To be precise they reopened my account after they took winnings. But I lost all the trust to Smarkets so I withdrew all my funds from there.


Well, the point is that if you void such bets, then there is no point on having an exchange. Because every time you lose you can say "I made a mistake" so no debate abut that for sure
I would  like to have a right to void my bet if I took unfair price by mistake. Not after but before the game. We all know it would be not possible even if you requested this immediately.

Anytime I made mistake on exchanges, I contacted their costumer service, and I got answer that matched bets cant be voided, and every costumer has right to take any price.
Are you talking about Smarkets? Any of you guys got a refund when you lost money by matching out of line priced order?  Did any of you request refund in that case? They claim that they have voided bets on numerous accasions.


Did you let the bet go inplay or did you wait for it to return to the normal price and then hedge?
I hedged my profits before start of the games in 2 of 4 markets. I didn't do all green in these two more because my account was suspended and I got an email all bets will be voided so I let them run in play. They both won.


Ouch, pretty bad case for them and you. Their reputation is at stake and your profit is at stake for yourself.
The reason they void those bets, is because THEIR bots misfired and you took money from them actually. Most of the time, it is them and their own in-house market makers putting money in the markets there. They wouldn't void those bets if it was some bloke from Liverpool who had layed them there, I am sure.
Good luck buddy, hope you take your money. Take it to Gambling Commission and Malta Gambling Commission is need be. Post it all over forums/blogs and let them know you will continue doing so until they give you the money.
Their reputation is at stake, and that is quite important for a company like Smarkets.
I can only presume whose money I took. But volume of these lay orders were obviously too heavy for bloke from Liverpool.

« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 09:20:40 PM by lukaszs » Logged
Thordin
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Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2016, 08:20:10 PM »

Sounds like you didn't suffer any loss, you greened up the bets in Smarkets and not on another bookie / exchange right?
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lukaszs
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lukaszs

Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2016, 08:23:04 PM »

Sounds like you didn't suffer any loss, you greened up the bets in Smarkets and not on another bookie / exchange right?
Right. That is the only positive side of this story.
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Arbusers
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Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2016, 08:25:54 PM »

Sounds like you didn't suffer any loss, you greened up the bets in Smarkets and not on another bookie / exchange right?
Right. That is the only positive side of this story.

I read in your previous post that 2 markets were left as orphans. Did these 2 markets caused the loss of 33483 Euros or am I getting something wrong?
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tiha_patnja
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Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2016, 08:29:58 PM »

Well, the point is that if you void such bets, then there is no point on having an exchange. Because every time you lose you can say "I made a mistake" so no debate abut that for sure
I would  like to have a right to void my bet if I took unfair price by mistake. Not after but before the game. We all know it would be not possible even if you requested this immediately.



Honestly, I do not agree with you. If you do something on an exchange you expose yourself to risk. If you put your money on positions where there is no value its your bad trading, not something an exchange needs to regulate. I have heard of people laying greyhunds on the exchange at odds of 900 with 200€ and to be honest thats their mistake.

If you cry when you lose then you should cry when you win because someone else is losing.

There is really a lot of Betfair fat fingers some were even shown in the media. I have never heard of someone getting their money back.

http://www.betangel.com/blog_wp/tag/fat-fingers/

You can google fat finger for a lot more.
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lukaszs
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Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2016, 08:31:38 PM »

Arbusers - no. These 2 orphans markets just boosted winnings to over 33k. If they didn't suspend my account and I would hedge profits in all markets then the winnings would be surely over 20k.
I would like to present my case in as fair way as possible so I checked Smarkets account and profits were like these:
1) all green - 7425 profit
2) all green - 4203 profit
3)  8k loss or 16362 profit (I would be able to get over 10k from that doing all green if my my account wasn't suspended)
4) I don' remember potentially loss but profit was 5492 (so I suppose at least 3k profit when I would do all green in this market)
Markets 3 and 4 both were winning ones.

tiha_patnja - I agree. But if some Smarket's client has a right to void bets I want to have the same rights under the same conditions (unfair price)
« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 09:13:40 PM by lukaszs » Logged
lukaszs
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Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2016, 09:48:30 PM »

Arbusers - no. These 2 orphans markets just boosted winnings to over 33k. If they didn't suspend my account and I would hedge profits in all markets then the winnings would be surely over 20k.
I would like to present my case in as fair way as possible so I checked Smarkets account and profits were like these:
1) all green - 7425 profit
2) all green - 4203 profit
3)  8k loss or 16362 profit (I would be able to get over 10k from that doing all green if my my account wasn't suspended)
4) I don' remember potentially loss but profit was 5492 (so I suppose at least 3k profit when I would do all green in this market)
Markets 3 and 4 both were winning ones.

tiha_patnja - I agree. But if some Smarket's client has a right to void bets I want to have the same rights under the same conditions (unfair price)

Just want to add that all 33k was physically credited to my Smarkets account. Although my account was suspended (I wasn't able to make any further bets) I was able to see what was happening in my Smarkets account until I turned off my computer. All 4 markets were settled correctly by their system. They removed winnings manually.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 09:55:42 PM by lukaszs » Logged
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