Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account (page 2)

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tiha_patnja
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tiha_patnja

Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2016, 11:35:32 PM »

Did you contact SBR or someone like that? In reality what they did to you is not in accordance with their T&C so I think you have the right to protest. Good luck with this, I hope you get your well earned money.
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lukaszs
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lukaszs

Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2016, 10:50:27 AM »

Did you contact SBR or someone like that? In reality what they did to you is not in accordance with their T&C so I think you have the right to protest. Good luck with this, I hope you get your well earned money.

I haven't contacted SBR yet. Before that I wanted to present my case here and thanks to you I saw that I'm not the only person who think that Smarkets did something wrong.
After Easter break I will inform SBR community.
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vinciguerra
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vinciguerra

Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2016, 11:09:13 AM »

Did you contact SBR or someone like that? In reality what they did to you is not in accordance with their T&C so I think you have the right to protest. Good luck with this, I hope you get your well earned money.

I haven't contacted SBR yet. Before that I wanted to present my case here and thanks to you I saw that I'm not the only person who think that Smarkets did something wrong.
After Easter break I will inform SBR community.

it's totally wrong behaviour but it does have a lot of precedent.  i'm not sure if there's any betting exchange that never voided a but because a bot went wild.  from experience i know Matchbook has voided and i know Betdaq has voided perfectly fine markets, simply because a bot made a mistake. i read about Betfair voiding, but never experienced it myself. I never used Smarkets, but they have done this before as well.

In most of these exchanges, even though it's morally wrong, their T&C allows it. And even if it isn't, it's very easy for them do say something was wrong on their end which I had no way of knowing:  I remember Betdaq coming up with a story that even though the market showed correcly on their website, the API didn't show it correctly and therefore they had the right to void (or something).

30K is a lot of money: i feel your pain, And yes, what they did is wrong, but they'll likely get away with it; nothing SBR can change about that.
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lukaszs
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Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2016, 11:52:35 AM »

Matchbook has some clause where is written that they have the right to void bets if price of matched bet is away of line. and every client has this right.

I wrote about Smarket's arguments in first post: the prices were outside fair market boundaries and they don’t feel bets were made in good faith. They did say nothing about technical error. And it wouldn't be true because markets were opened al the time, further bets were matched and settled. If they had some technical or system difficulties I would understand. But in my case it wasn't happened.

The main question in my case is: have they got a right to void bets if price is out of fair line? Even if they have  there is other question: why do they act in different ways in the same circumstances?

I just wasn't satisfied with Smarket's explanations and I've had many doubts. That is why I informed Arbusers community and will inform SBR's one.

If Arbusers community, SBR or MGA are more convincing than Smarkets did, I will accept this decision. But at this stage I don't feel I was treated in a fair way.
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sonic
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Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2016, 09:35:34 PM »

I was in a similar situation about a year ago and the amount was nowhere near what you mention (low 3 figure). I don't remember exactly the odds I took, but I remember there were slightly out of line, nothing extravagant or something to worry about. The bet won and CS contacted me and told me they voided the bet. After we exchanged some emails, telling them the same points mentioned previously (you are an exchange not a bookie etc), they finally graded the bet as a winner. Trust has been lost of course ever since...
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dealer wins
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dealer wins

Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2016, 09:52:15 PM »

I was in a similar situation about a year ago and the amount was nowhere near what you mention (low 3 figure). I don't remember exactly the odds I took, but I remember there were slightly out of line, nothing extravagant or something to worry about. The bet won and CS contacted me and told me they voided the bet. After we exchanged some emails, telling them the same points mentioned previously (you are an exchange not a bookie etc), they finally graded the bet as a winner. Trust has been lost of course ever since...

I would be fuming.  Its a fucking exchange between people who buy and sell odds for god sake.  Doesnt matter if the odds are 1.01 or 1000, if thats what is available or offered, then that is what the bet is END OF!!!!!

Nothing should be voided on an EXCHANGE, otherwise it is not an exchange, it is a managed bookmaker and has no place amounst bettors or arbers
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raizzak
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Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2016, 06:07:09 AM »

And the girls at playboy mansion are there for fun and love.... Grow a pair this industry is CRUELESS and governed by suits and they only care about profits and shareholders, heck most of them they haven't even a placed a bet themselves...
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lukaszs
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Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2016, 07:14:36 PM »

I was in a similar situation about a year ago and the amount was nowhere near what you mention (low 3 figure). I don't remember exactly the odds I took, but I remember there were slightly out of line, nothing extravagant or something to worry about. The bet won and CS contacted me and told me they voided the bet. After we exchanged some emails, telling them the same points mentioned previously (you are an exchange not a bookie etc), they finally graded the bet as a winner. Trust has been lost of course ever since...
I'm almost sure the sum of winning was one of decisive factors they decided to void bets. I was exchanging some email with them but I realized their decision stays unchanged and only further steps could change this.

Quote
Nothing should be voided on an EXCHANGE, otherwise it is not an exchange, it is a managed bookmaker and has no place amounst bettors or arbers
Please try to explain this to them. From my experience it was like banging my head against a brick wall.

Clause 5 from betting rule section:
"A bet is deemed to have been placed as soon as confirmation of the acceptance of the betting offer is received on the device or computer of the account holder from Smarkets."

They consider I placed bets in a bad faith. How can they use this phrase when it comes  to betting exchange? I had to pay for every betting error in the past. If I fall into trap odds they won't care about good and bad faith. It's hard to swallow.


 
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sonic
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sonic

Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2016, 09:49:52 PM »

Of course they returned the money they took to the person who put up the wrong odds, right? ;)
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portman
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portman

Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2016, 11:22:26 PM »

Hello mate,

Just have a quick look on the link below

http://thebetfairtrader.blogspot.co.uk/2006/11/biggest-betfair-loss-ever.html

i am aware of other similar cases involving Betfair especially on horse racing. I believe that your case is legitimate and you have to chase your winnings. Some years ago i suffered a 7k loss because on a tennis match with a grand favourite, i layed the favourite instead of the underdog in some very big odds. When i realized my mistake and contacted Betfair, i got the typical response that all matched bets bla bla bla whilst was clearly evident that a market maker had taken my bet. Good luck with this, hope to get your funds back.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2016, 11:26:09 PM by portman » Logged
dealer wins
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Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2016, 11:55:31 PM »

Hello mate,

Just have a quick look on the link below

http://thebetfairtrader.blogspot.co.uk/2006/11/biggest-betfair-loss-ever.html

i am aware of other similar cases involving Betfair especially on horse racing. I believe that your case is legitimate and you have to chase your winnings. Some years ago i suffered a 7k loss because on a tennis match with a grand favourite, i layed the favourite instead of the underdog in some very big odds. When i realized my mistake and contacted Betfair, i got the typical response that all matched bets bla bla bla whilst was clearly evident that a market maker had taken my bet. Good luck with this, hope to get your funds back.


Over the years I have placed bets on 1st set winners when they were well into set2, and layed winners after the event finished.  I have also been on the receiving end of taking peoples bets on things that cannot possibly win many many times.

The point being is that Smarkets is either an exchange, or a bookmaker.   It cant be both.

The same criticism can also be levelled at matchbook as they actually have terms that state they will void bets (not inplay) that are way out of line.

Talking of matchbook my best mate layed a tennis player by mistake at 1.9  (prematch) when it was at betfair and bookmakers at 1.4.  But they refused to void his bet.   But when I bet on an error not half as bad they called me and voided the bets.  I use matchbook massively but I dont trust them which is a shame.

These shops do themselves no favours by voiding bets, I hate betfair but they are right not to void even terrible errors.   

(except when its their system/traders that fuck up.... http://www.thegoodgamblingguide.co.uk/news/2012/scandal/betfair_punters_lose.htm )
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lukaszs
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lukaszs

Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2016, 11:28:16 AM »

Quote
The same criticism can also be levelled at matchbook as they actually have terms that state they will void bets (not inplay) that are way out of line.
At least Matchbook have some terms which concern prices out of the line.

Quote
Some years ago i suffered a 7k loss because on a tennis match with a grand favourite, i layed the favourite instead of the underdog in some very big odds. When i realized my mistake and contacted Betfair, i got the typical response that all matched bets bla bla bla whilst was clearly evident that a market maker had taken my bet.
Market makers are the same clients like us for exchanges. And we all should have the same rights (at least in a perfect world).

FYI I created a new topic in SBR forum.

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E4e
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E4e

Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2016, 04:09:02 PM »

Hey, I'm very sorry for your loss (an unrealized gain is still a loss in my opinion).

I'm a long time user of smarkets and I've never had a bet cancelled so I'm quite curious about what exactly happened. Well, I'm a very small scale user, most of my arbs yield single or low double digits, but still I generated a couple hundred thousand dollars of volumes and never had a gain withdrawn.

From their ToC the only condition where a bet would be cancelled is if the event outcome is already known (I guess that could include laying 1-0 when the score is already 1-1 for instance, hope it's not what you did).

I had a "miracle" bet a few weeks ago when a market maker (smarkets in-house MM operation ?) was buying a draw @ 1.7 odds on a soccer match (20 hours before the start of the game, betfair price 4.1 at the same time). The guy was there for big size and I locked something like 300 Dollars in 5 minutes (could have locked twice that if I had a bigger bankroll).

Honestly, I was expecting having my gain cancelled and account closed but surprisingly it didn't happen. Obviously once again, the scale is 1/100th of what happened to you and it may matter.

On the other side of the scale I've already asked their support if they could cancel bets I had placed on "trap odds" or on their old buggy android apps (some odds displayed were not tradable), of course the answer was no :)
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lukaszs
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lukaszs

Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2016, 06:03:21 PM »

Update: Smarkets declined to discuss my case futher with SBR (you can find the statement on SBR site).
Don't they want to fight for their reputation? I've had a hope to get some detailed statement with heavy arguments. I't time to follow MGA path.

And the question: have they got a right to put their own money on the market? I mean officially, not through market makers. I suppose they cannot be side of the bet but i want to make sure.
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qbet
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Re: Smarkets took 33483 EUR from my account
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2016, 11:45:19 AM »

Update: Smarkets declined to discuss my case futher with SBR (you can find the statement on SBR site).
Don't they want to fight for their reputation? I've had a hope to get some detailed statement with heavy arguments. I't time to follow MGA path.

And the question: have they got a right to put their own money on the market? I mean officially, not through market makers. I suppose they cannot be side of the bet but i want to make sure.

Officially it is illegal,  but this case doesn`t help you too. In fact that they keep your money
 
Why is it  illegal? 
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