Arbers and bookies

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alimma
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Arbers and bookies
« on: August 14, 2016, 04:56:29 PM »

Hello,

First i hope Arbuser understand my point and dont shut dont my account. i am writing this we little anger not for myself but for the future and new ones. i have quite learnt alot of experience in this business.

i have read alot of forums and it is really sad the stories that comes from there, be it true or false or shaddy but it is just pitiable that sure coudl happen.

We can read of a case where one bets 8000 euro on an international match and after his bet was a winner of 18700 euro, the bookie refused to give his winning and claim he has to provide his source of income before Arbing, what kind og rubbish is this, WHAT IF HE LOST, by the way what does the source of income has to do with his winning even if he is a thief.

We can read stories of a bookie refusing to pay out 17000 euros to the player and shut his account even after paying out some money, and the reasson becomes that HIS ACCOUNT IS UNDER INVESTIGATION, for heavens sake, it wasnt when you paid out 2500 but it is when you wont pay out 17000.

you can read about my case with Unibet, that is almot 3 months now and will be forgotten like a lot other ones.

or about that with pinnacle and they replied after 17 emails, WE UNDERSTAND YOUR OPINION AND YOU ARE RIGHT BUT ACCORDING TO OUR TERMS, ALL BETS ON THE EVENT WAS VOIDED.

Bet365 twice has done the same and on one annoying case, i placed a bet of 1000 euros on 2.30 odds and after 2 hours of ended game, i got 1850 and the agents said, we are sorry, the odds at the time of inplay was wrong, the real odd was 1.85 despite the fact that i placed bet at the DRAW hand to win at 13.00. Then my question to them on my lossing Draw was , what was the correct odd, and what would it be if i lost at 2.30.

my point on all this examples is that there is no where safe on the arbing, one day it might be me and another it might be you and you stop when all you money is taken away by the crooks aand no body is doing anything about it. I have written to every gambling commission online and at worst, they will just degrade the bookie and that is finished and the crime goes on.

I cannot talk about can bet, still going on now right, that is finished.

For some, it dont hurt because when we gain 1000 and lost 500, we are still in gain and we dont argue, but be patient and like the odd of 1.05 and 95, you will have all you bankroll taken away to them.

i am not good at organising people but some persons are and have the resources. This bookies are coming up everyday with rules that protect them and help them to still from the people they promise to give entertainment and nobody is asking a thing or doing anything. There are good website out there that try to help, but the true remain that they run on resources and when it is done, they stop and the bookies who have more continue.

MY OPINION IS SIMPLE, i have made a little research and found out that we have at least 3000 Arbers maybe around the world. This is far more bigger than bet365 because if all put togather, then we can fight. If a union or website is made and each member has to pay a monthly payment of 300 pounds which i my opinion is nothing compared to the what will be gained or what we lose, then that totals about 90000 or more every month. I believe this is enough to hire good lawyer who can take bookies to court on cases that are too difficult to settle or are to big to make profit from.

everyday there are cases with bookies from 500 pounds to 20000 pounds withheld between them and the commission can get or not but the HOUSE ALWAYS WINS, but we can be a house also and get some reputation for ourselves. It is true we dont use our identification all the time but there is no rule that prevents arbing or making using my moms id as a crime.

You might pass by my opinion today but in the next 3 years, Arbing will be done not because of the limitation or because we cannot find arbs, but because the resources for the arbers are all locked up in the bookies.
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Thordin
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Re: Arbers and bookies
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2016, 05:05:17 PM »

Would you really want williamhill's, bet365's etc lawyers snooping in on your accounts, e-wallets, transactions and financial stuff?
Would your friends want that?
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ilovethisforum
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Re: Arbers and bookies
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2016, 05:18:06 PM »

alimma you are totally right,but i would agree with Thordin also.The only thing that we can do together,i believe, is to force all bookies(by law) to accept all players,or at least limit good players with a reasonable amount of let's say 1000 euro max payout,something like that.This is my opinion.
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alimma
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Re: Arbers and bookies
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2016, 05:28:42 PM »

Would you really want williamhill's, bet365's etc lawyers snooping in on your accounts, e-wallets, transactions and financial stuff?
Would your friends want that?


I wont want that but clearly every company has it background secret and the lawyers are far aware of it and protect the image of the client will fighting for the course.

Even murderers caught in the act has lawyers who fight there way out of it
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luctens
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Re: Arbers and bookies
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2016, 06:41:43 PM »

Campaigning and getting lawyers onto unfair terms and conditions is just a waste of time as for every unfair term and condition, there is an extremely way to get round it in the first place, so the far easier, efficient and cost-effective way to deal with that problem is to take the easy steps necessary not to get caught by these unfair terms and conditions in the first place rather than waste time and money on court battles trying to repeal these terms.

It is true that every business has the right to sell to who they want etc, but the reality is, apart from bookmakers, what other different industries actually enforce that right?

For example, Tesco do loss leader offers like on their beer and other products. I'm sure there are plenty of customers that don't shop in Tesco at all and only go in there when there is such an offer on to buy whatever product is on a loss leader offer. Tesco loses money to those customers, it's as simple as that. Tesco have every legal right to refuse those customers from ever coming in their store again and from a pure/profit loss perspective, they should. But Tesco look at the bigger picture and they know that if they ban these customers, the inevitable poor PR image in the press etc created by taking this action would far outweigh any savings made from banning these unprofitable customers as they would also put off potential new and existing customers coming into the store therefore they don't ban any customers whatsoever, unprofitable or not.

For example though, if you go into a Betfred retail betting shop and you solely go in their to do their price boosts and nothing else, before long you'll probably be shown the door and the reason Betfred would do this is that they could get rid of unprofitable customers and the PR image would be pretty much unchanged because the press weren't taking any notice of it and no campaigners etc were doing anything about it. A win win for places like Betfred. This situation is changing now with the press taking a lot more attention of this and campaign groups campaigning against this and making inroads. This now means that the practices of banning unprofitable customers is giving them a poor PR image and therefore it may be discouraging a lot of new and existing recreational customers from using a place like Betfred, so if the bookmakers didn't take the lazy approach and looked at the bigger picture, banning unprofitable customers is probably actually a net loss to the bookmaker in the end when all is taken into account. The reality is, whatever the bookmaker may tell you, letting all customers bet won't bankrupt them overnight and will make very little difference to their overall bottom line, the fact is that they are greedy and even if banning unprofitable customers gives them a little more profit, they will do whatever they can to get that little more profit. But if the light bulb comes on for them and they realise that the amount of recreational business they are losing because of the poor PR image they are creating by banning other customers actually outweighs any savings made by banning unprofitable customers, they will soon change. As when all is said and done, they will do whatever they need to in order to pad their bottom line. They will have no problem whatsoever allowing unprofitable customers in if they believe that as a result of doing that, any losses on those customers will be wiped out by the profits on the increase of recreational business as a result of a better PR image as they are only concerned with increased profit, however they get to it is not a problem for them.

We have now had movements in Australia with minimum bet laws coming in and they are confident that this will be for all sports within a couple of years. We have also recently had Coral say that they will accept a bet to win £500 on any horse from any customer in shop after 11am. One of their guys on Twitter also confirmed that this was due to the man on the street hearing more and more about restrictions and getting put off betting in the first place so they feel they have been forced to make this concession.

I believe that the Australian and Coral movements is the first step onto bookmakers accepting that the PR image of banning customers is only going to get worse and customers can see that these practices are way out of line with what customers experience in all other industries and I think we will see further developments soon on these issues as bookmakers soon realise that banning unprofitable customers has an overall net loss to their business. I don't have much faith at all with The Gambling Commission doing anything about it so the only way for this to keep progressing is for the bookmakers to continually see their name being dragged through the mud in the press and put them in a position where they are forced to make a move and make concessions to all customers in order to stop this growing unwanted press and media attention.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 07:00:33 PM by luctens » Logged
maletaja
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Re: Arbers and bookies
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2016, 09:16:03 PM »

Sry guys there are fundamental error. As long as you enter bookie and make deposit you confirm T and C. You are their playground
Publicity wont help. You are just another gambler who whines about his losses When you want to get part of that business. u have to start bookie yourself and gather juisy 10% spread every bet
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luctens
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Re: Arbers and bookies
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2016, 11:57:41 PM »

Sry guys there are fundamental error. As long as you enter bookie and make deposit you confirm T and C. You are their playground
Publicity wont help. You are just another gambler who whines about his losses When you want to get part of that business. u have to start bookie yourself and gather juisy 10% spread every bet
You only have to look at the facts. 2 years ago it would have been unheard of to think that Australian bookmakers would have to lay all customers on horse racing and that Coral will lay all customers in shop on horse racing. What has caused that is campaigning groups and very bad publicity for the bookmakers. That shows there is progress in that area and that is worth campaigning for.

What isn't worth campaigning for is what you are suggesting which is to employ some lawyers to repeal some of the bookmakers' unfair terms and conditions. It's just not going to happen. It's far easier for you the customer, to look at all of the bookmakers terms, find out which are the dodgy/unfair terms and find ways not to get caught out by them. Job done.
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my_username
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Re: Arbers and bookies
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2016, 08:55:27 AM »

bookies are mafia, just like bankers. laws in malta and gibraltar are so vague intentionally because that is their number one income and on top of that, bookies have terms of service written so broad and vague to apply any given situation if they wish so.

my argument is that terms of service cannot beat the law. you cannot circumvent a law with a simple I agree button.

and yes while bookies can set their own prices like most business, client discrimination is still illegal in the west, isn't it? can you deny a client just because? can sainsbury deny you entrance when you want to buy a loaf of bread? or raise beer prices just for you?

but who knows which laws they need to follow and if maltese laws even cover these situations

but yeah, fight is futile for arbers, because if we kick them and hurt them, they will find other ways to destroy our business and we'll draw the shortest straw in the end

so just find their mistakes and hammer them hard
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alimma
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Re: Arbers and bookies
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2016, 11:31:39 AM »

Hello Guys,

i say it again, my point is not about the limits of player, it is inevitable every where, if a realationship is not good to one party, it is stopped that is simple. but my point is not on limits.

I have read some many T and Cs of bookies and believe me that is not what they practice.

Where in the terms is it right to confiscate someones winning and ask for prove of income before betting. Are you the police.

where in the terms is it right to close an account not used and keep the money without reason. so do that to 1 million users and you become bill gate.

where in the terms is it right to payout some winning and keep some in the name of verification. so what happened when you were paying the others, are you blind.

where in the terms are you allowed to change the odds of betting after the macth has finished some hours ago. So if i bet at a odd of 3 at bet365 and it has 3.2 at others, then at the end of the match, bet365 has the right to pay out at the odd of 2 right: NO  that is not in the terms.

My point is about the things not in the terms and that is what needs to be fought for, every bookie has the right to void bet or the right to limit, Yes that is in the terms but not for unnecessary partice.

Yesterday, a discussion with one guy from the commission, 1XBET refused to pay out 17000 pounds and said the user logined from a computer that already has an account. OMG, so it has become one house, one computer, give it time if unchecked, it iwill become one country one computer.

Yes this bookies are mafia, so can Arber be, when you keep calm at unnecessary things, it becomes necessary and accepted. When you fight it, then they learn it doesnt work for everyone and avoid you.

All i am saying is a fair game between both parties.

For me, i have made more money in Arb than anything i have done in my life but believe me, the fear of this stories is making it difficult to place a bet of 500 pounds without worrying if it will stand when it has won.

UNDERSTAND MY POINTS GUYS AND THINK ABOUT TOMORROW.

Yes a good advice is to enjoy it while it last, but like i have said, i betted on casino one time and covered all the number except 2, my profit was small but every day i got the same amount i deposit, very nice. Then one day i deposited alot out of greed and lost all on 2 outcome that are the same. Is that a programming errror, yes it is. but that is not the point.

So guys think  and understand my point.

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luctens
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Re: Arbers and bookies
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2016, 05:16:38 PM »

bookies are mafia, just like bankers. laws in malta and gibraltar are so vague intentionally because that is their number one income and on top of that, bookies have terms of service written so broad and vague to apply any given situation if they wish so.

my argument is that terms of service cannot beat the law. you cannot circumvent a law with a simple I agree button.

and yes while bookies can set their own prices like most business, client discrimination is still illegal in the west, isn't it? can you deny a client just because? can sainsbury deny you entrance when you want to buy a loaf of bread? or raise beer prices just for you?

but who knows which laws they need to follow and if maltese laws even cover these situations

but yeah, fight is futile for arbers, because if we kick them and hurt them, they will find other ways to destroy our business and we'll draw the shortest straw in the end

so just find their mistakes and hammer them hard
Quite a few of the bookmakers' terms and conditions would be laughed at in a court of law and we know that they are unfair but we don't want to have regular court battles regarding these terms so it is much easier for us to make sure we don't get caught out by these terms in the first place.

Discrimination in the west is defined as refusing the custom of somebody because of their race, age, sex etc. Refusing custom or changing the terms of custom because they are unprofitable to the business isn't defined as discrimination so in your example if Sainsburys wanted to ban you from the shop or raise beer prices for you just because you only take advantage of their loss leader offers and therefore you're unprofitable for them, Sainsburys are well within their rights to do that and it isn't illegal whatsoever. However, as I said in my previous post, except from practically just the bookmaking industry, practically no other industry actually uses this legal right they have to ban unprofitable customers, because the businesses know the backlash it would cause by all customers because although this practice isn't defined as discrimination, customers would see it as exactly that and the PR image for a company like Sainsburys would be ghastly and if they look at it overall, most probably Sainsburys realise that although they could very easily ban unprofitable customers, the PR backlash that would cause and the amount of normal shoppers put off shopping with them because of that would actually result on an overall net loss to their business, so they therefore begrudgingly allow these unprofitable customers into their store to shop like the rest of us.

And that very poor PR image for banning customers is starting to be felt hard by the bookmakers and I believe they are seeing more and more normal bettors being put off betting with them because of the poor PR image creating by the publicity surrounding banning customers and that will like in the example of Sainsburys result in the amount of normal bettors not betting with them because of the poor PR image outweighing any savings made from banning unprofitable customers, and therefore they will soon wake up to the realisation that these practices of banning customers is actually a net loss to their business which is why I believe we will see more developments in this area soon.
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luctens
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Re: Arbers and bookies
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2016, 05:22:37 PM »

Hello Guys,

i say it again, my point is not about the limits of player, it is inevitable every where, if a realationship is not good to one party, it is stopped that is simple. but my point is not on limits.

I have read some many T and Cs of bookies and believe me that is not what they practice.

Where in the terms is it right to confiscate someones winning and ask for prove of income before betting. Are you the police.

where in the terms is it right to close an account not used and keep the money without reason. so do that to 1 million users and you become bill gate.

where in the terms is it right to payout some winning and keep some in the name of verification. so what happened when you were paying the others, are you blind.

where in the terms are you allowed to change the odds of betting after the macth has finished some hours ago. So if i bet at a odd of 3 at bet365 and it has 3.2 at others, then at the end of the match, bet365 has the right to pay out at the odd of 2 right: NO  that is not in the terms.

My point is about the things not in the terms and that is what needs to be fought for, every bookie has the right to void bet or the right to limit, Yes that is in the terms but not for unnecessary partice.

Yesterday, a discussion with one guy from the commission, 1XBET refused to pay out 17000 pounds and said the user logined from a computer that already has an account. OMG, so it has become one house, one computer, give it time if unchecked, it iwill become one country one computer.

Yes this bookies are mafia, so can Arber be, when you keep calm at unnecessary things, it becomes necessary and accepted. When you fight it, then they learn it doesnt work for everyone and avoid you.

All i am saying is a fair game between both parties.

For me, i have made more money in Arb than anything i have done in my life but believe me, the fear of this stories is making it difficult to place a bet of 500 pounds without worrying if it will stand when it has won.

UNDERSTAND MY POINTS GUYS AND THINK ABOUT TOMORROW.

Yes a good advice is to enjoy it while it last, but like i have said, i betted on casino one time and covered all the number except 2, my profit was small but every day i got the same amount i deposit, very nice. Then one day i deposited alot out of greed and lost all on 2 outcome that are the same. Is that a programming errror, yes it is. but that is not the point.

So guys think  and understand my point.
You say "All i am saying is a fair game between both parties." You have to accept that it will never be a fair game between bookmaker and customer, and if you think it will be any different, you are deluded. It will always be lopsided on the bookmaker side, and it always has been and always will be the responsbility of the customer not to get caught out by any unfair terms and conditions in the first place rather than to expect any regulator to change these terms, as the customer is pretty much on their own with very little regulation to back them up. So we have to make sure we don't get caught by these unfair terms and conditions in the first place, that's our only viable option.

Pretty much all of the terms you have stated are listed in most bookmakers terms and conditions to cover their backs, but it is only dodgy bookmakers that try to use these terms to outright scam you.

If you simply bet with reputable bookmakers, don't bet on palpable errors, have all relevant documentation to send to the bookmaker if requested, and don't break any of their terms and conditions, you won't have a problem.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 05:28:33 PM by luctens » Logged
barbero
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Re: Arbers and bookies
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2016, 08:00:01 PM »

Of course if you try to abuse them you will get caught and screwed. But also, I believe we've all had cases of odds as little off from the market as 10% being voided or paid out at corrected odds. Total BS, there's no 'fair reason' why they shouldn't be paying this, they just protect their business and simply don't pay because they can. That's the point: they do it because they can, because nobody actually cares (or not enough people so as to put pressure on them). I think it's natural and even positive for everyone that they protect their business, but the thing is it's come to a point where they abuse customers, because as alimma pointed out sometimes there's no way to know whether a bet will stand (not talking obvious palps here). So what's my point? They won't play fair even if you do, unless we consider squeezing minimal value out of them to be unfair? But then what are we talking about, we all just need to bet like idiots all the time?

Having said all this, I still think the smart way to proceed is what luctens suggested (great insight, btw): just dodge them. Try to stay under the radar for as long as possible and when it's done, move on. I believe this not because I don't want to confront them, which I certainly do, but because our hands are pretty much tied when betting with friends, at least regarding non-payments. And bookies know it: rarely will a pro bettor not betting with friends nowadays, for obvious reasons. And I certainly won't send my grandma to court to fight them...  :-\

This is, if we think the individual and easy solution is good enough. If looking for a global solution, which would be something closer to a 'fair game', as far as I see it the only reasonable thing we can do is put pressure on them, rather than battling each case individually by taking them to court every time they don't pay. Trying to get the media involved, getting people to see the nature of the scam: 'hey, if you win you will get banned, so what's the point in betting anyway? Don't bet with these scammers'. If we manage to get this message across and put enough pressure on them, we should see improvement similar to what's going on in Australia. As I expressed in some other thread it would be great to see us arbers leading some of this and it might turn out to be beneficial for everyone. Easy to say but not so easy to do, however, and problems will arise everywhere, like betting through friends, the fact that we are all from different countries so where to focus?, etc

A few other things have been said that I would like to comment on. First, I'm unsure about the statement on Tesco, bookies, etc, being able to ban customers at will. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that admission rights are based on some sort of social rights or social rules and it's not as simple as 'I kick you whenever I want to'. In order to be able to ban a customer, in any normal industry you need to show they were misbehaving in some way or breaking rules. I'm not so sure they have that right to sell to whoever they want, in such a discriminatory fashion; it's just that we haven't taken the battle far enough so as to show it someone who A) cares and B) can do something about it. And the reason we haven't done so is, I believe, is that someone is Justice and that's a freaking epic battle which isn't worth fighting and certainly nobody can do it invidually: bookies would totally crush us. So I agree it's not the smart way to go, I just wanted to make my point that it's not so clear they actually have the right to kick us out, it's just we don't have the means to fight back. Smarter way to go would be to show the world how bookies play the game...

On the other hand, the fact that their T&C allow them to ban whoever, not pay whenever they don't want to, and make whatever decisions regarding our accounts, doesn't LEGALLY allow them to do it. Not at all. It's just their first line of defense. Their T&C would be laughed at in court? Absolutely. And they have been already. Recently some guy in Spain took bwin to court for not wanting to pay him some 300€ or so. First thing the judge did (but don't count on all of them being this reasonable...) was declare their T&C null for being abusive. Law is above T&C. You can start your own business and write whatever sh*t T&C you want, but that won't make them legal, as it has been proven. The guy didn't even take a lawyer. He won and got paid, if you need more detail I can tell you about but I think what's important about it is clear enough.

Does this mean we should go to court every time they don't pay us? That would be every day... So no, not quite the way to go. As luctens said, once again, it's easier for us to not get caught.

Bit of a mess, but points made I hope.
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alimma
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Re: Arbers and bookies
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2016, 09:38:53 PM »


Does this mean we should go to court every time they don't pay us? That would be every day... So no, not quite the way to go. As luctens said, once again, it's easier for us to not get caught.


I read all this and the last sentence got me, i will explain some thing to you, if you let a bad thing go on, it will become accepted. If you fight to put a stop to it, at a time you dont have to fight anymore becomes it will be accepted as wrong.
First there is nothing wrong with Arbing, there is nothing illegal in it and i do not care how a bookie feel about it. Before i started arbing, one bookie announce a yearly profit of 3.3 billion dollars, how did that money come, IT IS FROM LOSER, so if i stand out and decide that i want to do something smart with technology, dont blame me for it either using my id or my moms.

Also i really want you guys to understand the point here. I am not asking any bookie to rule in my favour what i am asking is that they do simple what is right. We do not need to go to court always before they can understand that the action is not acceptable.

i will give you an instance, Unibet started closing account and confiscating funds, we accepted it, not body argued, Today even the MGA or any commission accepted it and so Unibet keeps doing it at will. You can open an account, nothing is done, once you deposit then it becomes confiscated. So tell me how that goes. Funny one of my  lawyer friend after hearing this laughed and said he wanted to try. Funny he opened account with betsson and after series of bets, they closed his account and said the same bullshit. He told them he was taking them to court and the next day his money was paid with an email, SORRY WE MISTAKENLY CLOSED YOUR ACCOUNT. How funny that is right.

Another example, i placed a bet at odd of 1.7 and 2.2 at bet365, i place bet on 1.7, of course i was arbing but then other bookies had 1.4 and 2.8 etc. but then after 3 hours game ended, bet365 said, sorry we are regrading your bet to the correct odd of 1.3 instead of 1.7 it was traded on. HAHAHAHA, so tell me in the world what allows someone to do this. Then i asked them, why did you do that and they said that it was because the odds was wrong. So how it it wrong, it is not a palp, it is not an arb also so what makes it wrong. This they cannot explain. Second i asked, so what if my bet lost, and they replied then it would be a loser. does this sound strange to you.

Really i do not care, wise arbers think ahead but i am just worried what it will become in the next years for the other ones who need a livelihood from it. Some years backs, bookies dont ask for ids, soon they did, so it was not enough and selfie started and soon it will become the picture of YOUR xxxx and of course we would comply because you think you are doing something wrong.

I believe that once you stand up to A BULLY, he will not come back even if he does, he will be prepared and it will not be very common again.
So keep quite guys and soon the bookies will have all your money
« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 09:44:10 PM by alimma » Logged
barbero
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Re: Arbers and bookies
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2016, 10:21:40 PM »

alimma, I get your point. You don't need to give any more examples, we all know them, happens every single day. They just do whatever pleases them.

I know you are pissed. I too have been many times, surely all of us. I also know it's not only being pissed, what you do is looking ahead: I myself have talked to several lawyers concerning both limitations and (non) payments. I have put money into it. Wanna know my conclusion? There's battles in life you simply cannot win.

And I'm on your side, believe me mate, but what can we do? Realistically.

Are people here willing to fight this battle, or we tend to think it's better to just stay under the radar for as long as it lasts? I already said what I think: way to fight shouldn't be in court (unless being REALLY powerful and as such able to confront them and change regulations, which seems impossible), but through getting the media involved, informing everyone, and whatever other similar ways of giving them the reputation they deserve. It's either this, which you won't be able to do alone and will need lots of support, or just try to avoid being caught as we all do...

Maybe you can throw a poll (with Arbusers approval, I hope this is not far-fetched) and see who supports doing something about it and who thinks it's a waste of time & money and it's better to just be quiet  ???
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Re: Arbers and bookies
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2016, 03:22:09 AM »

In terms of dodgy practices with voiding bets or whatever, I can only say from my experience I have never had a reputable bookmaker try any funny business with me with voiding bets, confiscating funds or whatever so in my experience, if you play with reputable bookmakers and play by all of the rules, you won't get burned. If you ever see details of a dispute with a reputable bookmaker on a forum or whatever, then there almost always is at least a legitimate argument for the bookmakers to have taken the action they did, or if they are in the wrong it is usually an honest mistake. These reputable bookmakers didn't get to the market leading positions they hold today by scamming customers and making very dodgy decisions for absolutely no reason so to severely reduce the chance of anything dodgy happening to you, use reputable bookmakers, there are enough of them out there to make a good living for any arber.

Regarding getting the media involved and exposing these immoral and unethical practices of the bookmakers, the best way you can do that is to join http://justiceforpunters.org/ and the guy who founded it at https://twitter.com/gondorffhenry and also https://twitter.com/mickmcdermott79 and https://twitter.com/BoycottBetfred who I believe are involved in the campaign. They are continuing to do a very good job of exposing the bookmakers' practices and getting media coverage around it on radio and online and the murmurings I've heard is that their campaign played an unwitting part in showing the founders of Black Type Bet that there was a gap in the market for customers that had been closed down and also I believe the pressure they are putting on bookmakers played a part in Coral's decision to introduce their in-shop horse racing guarantees, so they have seemingly already influenced change and they are continuing to do so. They also have contacts in high up places and they have laid the groundwork for campaigning against the bookmakers so rather than set anything up yourselves, your best bet would be to join them in their campaigning.

Regarding the legality of bookmakers being able to ban customers because they are unprofitable, believe me if what they were doing in doing this was illegal then I would be starting a court case myself against the bookmakers immediately. The fact is though, the only illegal reasons a business can refuse a customer is because of discrimination, and that would be defined as refusing a customer because of their age, race, gender etc. The bookmakers are refusing customers because they are unprofitable, so whilst to every sane person in the land what they are doing is obviously discrimination, it isn't discrimination in the eyes of the law, so bookmakers are well within their legal rights to refuse a customer if they are unprofitable to them, as are any other industry, but practically only bookmakers actually partake in these immoral and unethical practices.

There is a court case going on however in Spain against Bet365 by about 230 bettors for Bet365 closing their accounts because they were unprofitable for the business. Details are on http://calvinayre.com/2016/09/15/business/bet365-launch-new-mobile-casino-app-deal-with-spanish-player-lawsuit/ I certainly hope they get somewhere with this and it would definitely be a landmark and precedent case if they did get anywhere, but given that the law just isn't with them in this situation, I just can't see anything coming of it.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 03:30:21 AM by luctens » Logged
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