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Arbing between different currency accounts?

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Author Topic: Arbing between different currency accounts?  (Read 677 times)
viking2
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« on: September 17, 2016, 09:19:46 PM »

First off, since most of the people here are in europe as i posted a question on what country is everyone here from and most people mentioned somewhere in Europe and the moderator here or one of the mods showed stats where most of the arbers here are from europe.  I assume almost all of you keep all your currency accounts in euros right?  I would figure the 2nd most important currency is usd right?  Then its pounds?

I know there are books out there that are only Euro currency or usd currency.  My question that i want to ask is... is it very hard to do an arb where the 2 books you are doing an arb, one is euro and the other is usd or say pounds?  I know most books like pinnacle etc allow you to choose the currency you desire.  But some books only allow certain currency only such as usd or euro... or am i wrong about the euro part?


Say you saw a game where odds on book A is -130 odds and its in euro odds.  Now book B is +135 odds and its in euro odds.  Wells thats pretty easy to do an arb since you can use an arb calculator and you can put exactly how much to bet on each book to arb.  Now let say the +135 odds are in USD or say pounds?  First you would need to do the same thing as know how much is the euros to bet on each book.  But for the book with +135 and let say its in USD, then you have to convert the Euro amount to usd right?  So doing this would be pretty much the same?  Or its different because the euro/usd or euro/pound rate changes constantly?  Obviously if you keep all books in the same currency, its simple. 


I'm wondering are there people here that do arbs between books that are different currencies?  And even if do these arbs, do you actually lose money once say at the end of the match, whether you won the bet at the euro book or usd book, if the euro goes weaker or stronger against usd, then you actually lose money during this time since the match started?  Does that make sense in what im saying or is my logic completely wrong here? 


Also would you say its not worth it because when you factor in having to convert everything back to euro, you actually lose money?  Say if you had to convert the usd or pound back to euro since euro is your primary currency.


Would like if anyone does this or has input on it.  Obviously everything in same currency makes things much simpler.
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viking2
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2016, 10:16:44 PM »

I like to also ask.  If you frequently deposit/withdraw, does this play any impact?  Does it matter if the usd to euro rate gets weaker or stronger or it plays an absolute part in this?  I read another thread where someone said they arb with euro acct and one site that only allow usd.  The issue was they were winning in the usd account but when they withdrew, the usd rate cost that person money... i don't recall if they said it got stronger or weaker against the euro.  Do you want the dollar to be stronger or weaker against the euro if you are winning in the euro book?  What about the usd book?  Or does it not matter?
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Kalitko
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« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2016, 07:17:34 PM »

I have considered the option and for now decided not to bother. Since all sharps allow EUR accounts I guess your soft leg will be in a USD account meaning most likely you will end up with more USD then you started, so you would hope for EUR/USD going down. You can hedge your risk on the financial markets with some currency swaps, but I guess even among the pros here noone would go that far  :D  What is bothering me more is that I would need to pay not one but two times for currency conversion in the e-wallet which would require more work in order to be worth it.

If I am out of options I would probably give it a try but for now I don't.
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igulatas
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« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2016, 11:20:29 PM »

I am from Turkey and i use Turkish Lira (TRY) for almost all of my soft bookies and i use EUR for pinny.

I use https://en.surebet.com/calculator calculator which also converts the currencies.

TRY/USD rates are very changeable. To reduce the financial risks, i fix the rate to my last exchange rate. Of course sometimes i have some  loss, but it is not important because the profits are always more than the loss caused by the rate movement ;)  ;D
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viking2
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« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2016, 03:59:53 AM »

Hey guys here is the examples i want to use and would like some clarification on this.



Example 1


Let say bet365 has odds of team A is +180 odds.  Account is in USD currency.


Now let say matchbook account is in euros.  Or pinnacle account is in euros. 


So lets say pinnacle account in euros and odds are -175.


Let say you bet $1000 to win $1800 USD on bet365.


On pinnacle, with odds of -175.  You should be risking $1781.82 to win $1018.18.  Thus the arb would be for $18.18 no matter which side wins.


But since the pinnacle account is in euros, you have to convert the $1781.82 into euro in real time right?  Thus as of now its 1641.25 Euros. 


Then you would risk 1641.25 euros to win 937.85 euros?


So here you profit $18.18 right?  Or not because of the currency?  Thus in this, does the euro getting stronger or weaker against the dollar play a important part here?  Im very confused here because i believe this does right?  So in this example, do you want the euro to be stronger against the dollar or weaker against the dollar?  Does it depend on if you win the bet on the bet365 usd or the pinnacle euro?



Example 2


Same example and numbers.  But let say its matchbook and the odds are in euros.  Lets just say the odds are +180 on bet365 and say the odds on the other side at matchbook is -172.  Since matchbook charges 3 percent fee... the -172 comes to about -175 right?  Thus similar as if this was -175 on pinnacle?  So here whatever is the answer to the 1st example applies to matchbook right?  This is assuming matchbook is in euro account and bet365 is in usd account.


Im wondering how do people arb if they cannot get certain accounts in one same currency.  Or is it not possible to do arb because of the currency.  Now heres the other thing though.  Let say the book that is in Euros pays you out in bitcoin and you deposit/withdraw with bitcoin on it.  If thats the case, does it matter if the euro gets stronger or weaker against the dollar?  Or does that not matter at all?  If its with skrill/neteller as your deposit/payout, im assuming yes.  But if its using bitcoin, there isn't?
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barbero
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« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2016, 05:33:12 PM »

That's correct. I believe that if you want to arb in different currencies you will just have to take the FX risk. It can happen that you get lots of arbs landing on the same currency and that currency depreciating, thus losing money. However it can also go the other way round, and if you believe you place enough arbs so that in the end it will even out and you want to ignore the FX risk, you can go for it. What you will not be able to do, IMO, is for example hedge your positions at the end of the day... because its too time and money consuming for it to be worth it (I am no expert whatsoever but I believe it takes too much effort unless you are already and expert or at least familiar with FX markets, and even so, probably not worth it as you should be losing in commissions there). If you absolutely NEED to do it to remove FX risk then arbing in diff currencies might not worth it in the first place...
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viking2
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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2016, 07:06:15 PM »

hi there thanks for response barbero.  Okay assuming you are winning in the euro book, do you want the euro to get stronger or weaker against usd?

So for example, 1 euro now is 1.09 usd.  So if you are winning at the euro currency book, you would want 1 euro to be equal to 1.10 usd as oppose to 1.08 usd right? 


And 1 euro is 1.09 usd... if 1 euro goes to 1.10 usd... that means the euro is getting stronger.  But if it goes to 1.08 usd, the euro is getting weaker right?


But if you are winning in the usd book, you want the usd to be stronger against the euro and vice versa?


The other thing is this.  Assuming you don't cash out your balance, does it really matter much?  Thus 1 euro is about 1.09 usd.... but it will fluctuate a lot etc.  But it only matters if you deposit/withdraw a lot?
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barbero
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« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2016, 11:29:34 PM »

Yes to all viking2

Regarding the last question, it matters if the FX rate has changed from the moment of your deposit to the moment your withdrawal. If it were to remain stable, you wouldn't feel it (say EUR/USD = 1.08 when you deposit and EUR/USD = 1.08 when you withdraw, then no effect on your results at all, supposing you can change between currencies with 0 or low commission after you withdraw). If it changes, and for example € got stronger and you won more € than $, then good for you; if on the contrary you got more $, bad for you. This is what "ignoring FX risk means": considering that it will remain stable. Of course it won't and it will change, but you might just assume the risk and sometimes win and sometimes lose, if you feel it is important for you to access those bookies.
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