Which softs for start up? (page 2)

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Re: Which softs for start up?
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2016, 05:34:31 PM »

Thanks Luctens, very helpful.

What I just wonder is, if you are careful with your bets, and therefore avoid being limited, but your account in this bookie increases to amounts you don't need (cos you'd rather have some of this in other bookies which have lost during this month), how would you go round it to withdraw? Small amounts every few days/weeks or a bigger one-time sum (but still leaving money in your account). Surely the bookies cannot expect their users to keep all of their winnings in their account :)
If you're saying it's just a situation of having more money in a bookmaker than you'll need and that you'd just rather have some of your bankroll in other bookies in that you have sufficient bankroll to otherwise fund additional bookmakers without withdrawing from other bookmakers and you would only be withdrawing out of preference and convenience rather than necessity and if it isn't absolutely essential to move some money you have in one bookmaker to another bookmaker, I would say don't make a withdrawal unless it's absolutely essential and unavoidable, if it's preferable to have more money in another bookmaker but not absolutely necessary, then I would say if at all possible don't withdraw unless you absolutely have to. Even if you instinctively think that you must withdraw from a particular bookmaker and you think you have no option but to withdraw, just take some time to double and triple check everything and just see if you have any other options available to you rather than withdrawing from that bookmaker, as you need to realise that every withdrawal you do significantly increases the chances of your account getting limited.

If you are however in a case where you have no choice but to withdraw because you have no further bankroll available to put in other bookmakers' accounts, this where the amount of bankroll you have comes into play in that if you have a big enough bankroll to spread around a sufficient number of bookmakers at any one time, then you wouldn't need to withdraw just because one of the bookie balances has got high and you therefore don't have a enough to put in another bookie account without withdrawing from one of the other bookies first.

But if you are in a less flexible position with your bankroll where you absolutely have to withdraw for that reason or any other similar reason, I definitely wouldn't withdraw loads of small amounts, as although nobody absolutely knows the inner workings of a bookmaker, I expect a lot of the time when you withdraw, some spotty faced teenager that calls himself a trader will look over your account to see whether they want to limit you, so the higher the number of withdrawals the more times somebody is going to be looking over your account and the more chance you have of being limited.

So it's the least number of withdrawals the better, so if for example you absolutely have to withdraw £1k, it would be best to withdraw the £1k in one go and try and stay under the radar that one time rather than withdrawing £100 ten times periodically over a number of days or weeks.

And what you say about the bookies surely not expecting punters to keep all of their winnings in their account, oh but they do you see, as we should only be playing for "fun" according to the bookies, so those numbers in our account should only be viewed upon by punters as monopoly money that isn't really real and is only there to provide us with some "entertainment", and the bookmakers think it's their divine right to have all of that money themselves, so whenever they receive a withdrawal, the bookmakers look upon that as something you're doing gravely wrong, so the less you do of that crime the better. ;D
One situation when you might want to withdraw even though you have enough bankroll to play in other bookies is when you by chance accumulate way too much money in a bookie you feel for many reasons you shouldn't trust with such a big chunk. It refers to low grade bookies where you have to balance reward of being able to milk it vs the risk of loosing substantial part of your bankroll if they start funny games or go under.
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Re: Which softs for start up?
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2016, 05:45:42 PM »

Do you have any evidence to back up what you are saying luctens or are you just guessing that withdrawing is likely to get you limited?
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Re: Which softs for start up?
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2016, 06:02:11 PM »

Thanks Luctens, very helpful.

What I just wonder is, if you are careful with your bets, and therefore avoid being limited, but your account in this bookie increases to amounts you don't need (cos you'd rather have some of this in other bookies which have lost during this month), how would you go round it to withdraw? Small amounts every few days/weeks or a bigger one-time sum (but still leaving money in your account). Surely the bookies cannot expect their users to keep all of their winnings in their account :)
If you're saying it's just a situation of having more money in a bookmaker than you'll need and that you'd just rather have some of your bankroll in other bookies in that you have sufficient bankroll to otherwise fund additional bookmakers without withdrawing from other bookmakers and you would only be withdrawing out of preference and convenience rather than necessity and if it isn't absolutely essential to move some money you have in one bookmaker to another bookmaker, I would say don't make a withdrawal unless it's absolutely essential and unavoidable, if it's preferable to have more money in another bookmaker but not absolutely necessary, then I would say if at all possible don't withdraw unless you absolutely have to. Even if you instinctively think that you must withdraw from a particular bookmaker and you think you have no option but to withdraw, just take some time to double and triple check everything and just see if you have any other options available to you rather than withdrawing from that bookmaker, as you need to realise that every withdrawal you do significantly increases the chances of your account getting limited.

If you are however in a case where you have no choice but to withdraw because you have no further bankroll available to put in other bookmakers' accounts, this where the amount of bankroll you have comes into play in that if you have a big enough bankroll to spread around a sufficient number of bookmakers at any one time, then you wouldn't need to withdraw just because one of the bookie balances has got high and you therefore don't have a enough to put in another bookie account without withdrawing from one of the other bookies first.

But if you are in a less flexible position with your bankroll where you absolutely have to withdraw for that reason or any other similar reason, I definitely wouldn't withdraw loads of small amounts, as although nobody absolutely knows the inner workings of a bookmaker, I expect a lot of the time when you withdraw, some spotty faced teenager that calls himself a trader will look over your account to see whether they want to limit you, so the higher the number of withdrawals the more times somebody is going to be looking over your account and the more chance you have of being limited.

So it's the least number of withdrawals the better, so if for example you absolutely have to withdraw £1k, it would be best to withdraw the £1k in one go and try and stay under the radar that one time rather than withdrawing £100 ten times periodically over a number of days or weeks.

And what you say about the bookies surely not expecting punters to keep all of their winnings in their account, oh but they do you see, as we should only be playing for "fun" according to the bookies, so those numbers in our account should only be viewed upon by punters as monopoly money that isn't really real and is only there to provide us with some "entertainment", and the bookmakers think it's their divine right to have all of that money themselves, so whenever they receive a withdrawal, the bookmakers look upon that as something you're doing gravely wrong, so the less you do of that crime the better. ;D
One situation when you might want to withdraw even though you have enough bankroll to play in other bookies is when you by chance accumulate way too much money in a bookie you feel for many reasons you shouldn't trust with such a big chunk. It refers to low grade bookies where you have to balance reward of being able to milk it vs the risk of loosing substantial part of your bankroll if they start funny games or go under.
There are plenty of top class and reputable bookmakers, so nobody needs to be delving into any type of low grade, dodgy or shady bookmakers whatsoever.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 06:04:10 PM by luctens » Logged
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Re: Which softs for start up?
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2016, 06:13:43 PM »

Do you have any evidence to back up what you are saying luctens or are you just guessing that withdrawing is likely to get you limited?
It's simply my opinion, but withdrawing is obviously not going to make your account less likely to be limited, it's likely to be frowned upon by the bookmaker and will result in you having more chance of your account being limited as opposed to if you hadn't made that withdrawal, simple common sense will tell you that.

It simply stands to reason that every time you come into contact with a bookmaker, that's just an additional opportunity for them to have a look over your account and possibly get you limited, so the less you come into contact with the bookmaker, the less chance there is of somebody looking over your account and limiting it.

And one of the big means of contact you have with the bookmaker is if you request a withdrawal, and of course if you make a withdrawal, that's money going out from the bookmaker to the customer, so the bookmaker is often going to want to look over your account to see if you need to be limited.

So it stands to reason that the less withdrawals you make, the less times somebody has a chance to look over your account because you've made a withdrawal, so the less chance your account has of being limited.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 06:15:35 PM by luctens » Logged
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Re: Which softs for start up?
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2016, 06:27:10 PM »

Do you have any evidence to back up what you are saying luctens or are you just guessing that withdrawing is likely to get you limited?
It's simply my opinion, but withdrawing is obviously not going to make your account less likely to be limited, it's likely to be frowned upon by the bookmaker and will result in you having more chance of your account being limited as opposed to if you hadn't made that withdrawal, simple common sense will tell you that.

It simply stands to reason that every time you come into contact with a bookmaker, that's just an additional opportunity for them to have a look over your account and possibly get you limited, so the less you come into contact with the bookmaker, the less chance there is of somebody looking over your account and limiting it.

And one of the big means of contact you have with the bookmaker is if you request a withdrawal, and of course if you make a withdrawal, that's money going out from the bookmaker to the customer, so the bookmaker is often going to want to look over your account to see if you need to be limited.

So it stands to reason that the less withdrawals you make, the less times somebody has a chance to look over your account because you've made a withdrawal, so the less chance your account has of being limited.

Like your previous posts about bookmakers, your views of how they operate are being clouded by your opinion of them. If you stop to think about what you are saying, I think you will find that restricting because of a withdrawal makes no sense at all for a bookmaker. Presenting personal opinions as facts is not the best way to go about things, especially when talking to a newbie who may take what you are saying as gospel  ;)
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Re: Which softs for start up?
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2016, 06:48:22 PM »

Do you have any evidence to back up what you are saying luctens or are you just guessing that withdrawing is likely to get you limited?
It's simply my opinion, but withdrawing is obviously not going to make your account less likely to be limited, it's likely to be frowned upon by the bookmaker and will result in you having more chance of your account being limited as opposed to if you hadn't made that withdrawal, simple common sense will tell you that.

It simply stands to reason that every time you come into contact with a bookmaker, that's just an additional opportunity for them to have a look over your account and possibly get you limited, so the less you come into contact with the bookmaker, the less chance there is of somebody looking over your account and limiting it.

And one of the big means of contact you have with the bookmaker is if you request a withdrawal, and of course if you make a withdrawal, that's money going out from the bookmaker to the customer, so the bookmaker is often going to want to look over your account to see if you need to be limited.

So it stands to reason that the less withdrawals you make, the less times somebody has a chance to look over your account because you've made a withdrawal, so the less chance your account has of being limited.

Like your previous posts about bookmakers, your views of how they operate are being clouded by your opinion of them. If you stop to think about what you are saying, I think you will find that restricting because of a withdrawal makes no sense at all for a bookmaker. Presenting personal opinions as facts is not the best way to go about things, especially when talking to a newbie who may take what you are saying as gospel  ;)
So what are you saying? The more withdrawals the better? The bookies just love those withdrawals don't they? Don't be so silly.

Every withdrawal you make is obviously just giving them one more excuse and one more chance to have a look over your account and obviously that increases the chances of your account getting limited. The bookmakers preferred accounts are the ones that make the least withdrawals, so obviously bookmakers are going to look upon you more favourably the less withdrawals you've made as opposed to the more withdrawals you've made. It's all really common sense obvious stuff.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 06:52:39 PM by luctens » Logged
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Re: Which softs for start up?
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2016, 06:49:15 PM »

Thanks Luctens, very helpful.

What I just wonder is, if you are careful with your bets, and therefore avoid being limited, but your account in this bookie increases to amounts you don't need (cos you'd rather have some of this in other bookies which have lost during this month), how would you go round it to withdraw? Small amounts every few days/weeks or a bigger one-time sum (but still leaving money in your account). Surely the bookies cannot expect their users to keep all of their winnings in their account :)
If you're saying it's just a situation of having more money in a bookmaker than you'll need and that you'd just rather have some of your bankroll in other bookies in that you have sufficient bankroll to otherwise fund additional bookmakers without withdrawing from other bookmakers and you would only be withdrawing out of preference and convenience rather than necessity and if it isn't absolutely essential to move some money you have in one bookmaker to another bookmaker, I would say don't make a withdrawal unless it's absolutely essential and unavoidable, if it's preferable to have more money in another bookmaker but not absolutely necessary, then I would say if at all possible don't withdraw unless you absolutely have to. Even if you instinctively think that you must withdraw from a particular bookmaker and you think you have no option but to withdraw, just take some time to double and triple check everything and just see if you have any other options available to you rather than withdrawing from that bookmaker, as you need to realise that every withdrawal you do significantly increases the chances of your account getting limited.

If you are however in a case where you have no choice but to withdraw because you have no further bankroll available to put in other bookmakers' accounts, this where the amount of bankroll you have comes into play in that if you have a big enough bankroll to spread around a sufficient number of bookmakers at any one time, then you wouldn't need to withdraw just because one of the bookie balances has got high and you therefore don't have a enough to put in another bookie account without withdrawing from one of the other bookies first.

But if you are in a less flexible position with your bankroll where you absolutely have to withdraw for that reason or any other similar reason, I definitely wouldn't withdraw loads of small amounts, as although nobody absolutely knows the inner workings of a bookmaker, I expect a lot of the time when you withdraw, some spotty faced teenager that calls himself a trader will look over your account to see whether they want to limit you, so the higher the number of withdrawals the more times somebody is going to be looking over your account and the more chance you have of being limited.

So it's the least number of withdrawals the better, so if for example you absolutely have to withdraw £1k, it would be best to withdraw the £1k in one go and try and stay under the radar that one time rather than withdrawing £100 ten times periodically over a number of days or weeks.

And what you say about the bookies surely not expecting punters to keep all of their winnings in their account, oh but they do you see, as we should only be playing for "fun" according to the bookies, so those numbers in our account should only be viewed upon by punters as monopoly money that isn't really real and is only there to provide us with some "entertainment", and the bookmakers think it's their divine right to have all of that money themselves, so whenever they receive a withdrawal, the bookmakers look upon that as something you're doing gravely wrong, so the less you do of that crime the better. ;D
One situation when you might want to withdraw even though you have enough bankroll to play in other bookies is when you by chance accumulate way too much money in a bookie you feel for many reasons you shouldn't trust with such a big chunk. It refers to low grade bookies where you have to balance reward of being able to milk it vs the risk of loosing substantial part of your bankroll if they start funny games or go under.
There are plenty of top class and reputable bookmakers, so nobody needs to be delving into any type of low grade, dodgy or shady bookmakers whatsoever.
Well, many people do as you know reading this forum... Sometimes they get burned and look for advise which you are so kind as to provide. As for bookies, apart from the A list, any reputable one might become disreputable...
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Re: Which softs for start up?
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2016, 06:57:02 PM »

Do you have any evidence to back up what you are saying luctens or are you just guessing that withdrawing is likely to get you limited?
It's simply my opinion, but withdrawing is obviously not going to make your account less likely to be limited, it's likely to be frowned upon by the bookmaker and will result in you having more chance of your account being limited as opposed to if you hadn't made that withdrawal, simple common sense will tell you that.

It simply stands to reason that every time you come into contact with a bookmaker, that's just an additional opportunity for them to have a look over your account and possibly get you limited, so the less you come into contact with the bookmaker, the less chance there is of somebody looking over your account and limiting it.

And one of the big means of contact you have with the bookmaker is if you request a withdrawal, and of course if you make a withdrawal, that's money going out from the bookmaker to the customer, so the bookmaker is often going to want to look over your account to see if you need to be limited.

So it stands to reason that the less withdrawals you make, the less times somebody has a chance to look over your account because you've made a withdrawal, so the less chance your account has of being limited.

Like your previous posts about bookmakers, your views of how they operate are being clouded by your opinion of them. If you stop to think about what you are saying, I think you will find that restricting because of a withdrawal makes no sense at all for a bookmaker. Presenting personal opinions as facts is not the best way to go about things, especially when talking to a newbie who may take what you are saying as gospel  ;)
So what are you saying? The more withdrawals the better? The bookies just love those withdrawals don't they? Don't be so silly.

Every withdrawal you make is obviously just giving them one more excuse and one more chance to have a look over your account and obviously that increases the chances of your account getting limited. The bookmakers preferred accounts are the ones that make the least withdrawals, so obviously bookmakers are going to look upon you more favourably the less withdrawals you've made as opposed to the more withdrawals you've made. It's all really common sense obvious stuff.
dejected, it's difficult to have hard facts about it but it's shared experience that withdrawals won't do any good to the longevity of one's account
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Re: Which softs for start up?
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2016, 07:30:40 PM »

That is a big problem with the bookmaker situation. People just make things up because it suits their views. If I don't have hard evidence then I tend to look at it from a bookies point of view. What would I do if I were designing their systems.

I just can not see any reason to restrict people just because they make a withdrawal. What is the difference between a withdrawal by a recreational player that has just got lucky and an arber withdrawing their winnings? How does the algorithm tell the difference? Surely it would be stupid to restrict based on withdrawals because you would remove your chance of getting your money back from the recreational player.

Its a common belief that bookmakers restrict winners too ;)
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 07:32:23 PM by dejected » Logged
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Re: Which softs for start up?
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2016, 07:37:42 PM »

That is a big problem with the bookmaker situation. People just make things up because it suits their views. If I don't have hard evidence then I tend to look at it from a bookies point of view. What would I do if I were designing their systems.

I just can not see any reason to restrict people just because they make a withdrawal. What is the difference between a withdrawal by a recreational player that has just got lucky and an arber withdrawing their winnings? How does the algorithm tell the difference? Surely it would be stupid to restrict based on withdrawals because you would remove your chance of getting your money back from the recreational player.

Its a common belief that bookmakers restrict winners too ;)

Surely they see... value bet > value bet > value bet> BIG WIN!!!

That guy IS an Arber.
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Re: Which softs for start up?
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2016, 07:43:04 PM »

There is a way to get hard evidence. Send them a data protection request. They hate that ;)
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Re: Which softs for start up?
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2016, 07:47:31 PM »

That is a big problem with the bookmaker situation. People just make things up because it suits their views. If I don't have hard evidence then I tend to look at it from a bookies point of view. What would I do if I were designing their systems.

I just can not see any reason to restrict people just because they make a withdrawal. What is the difference between a withdrawal by a recreational player that has just got lucky and an arber withdrawing their winnings? How does the algorithm tell the difference? Surely it would be stupid to restrict based on withdrawals because you would remove your chance of getting your money back from the recreational player.

Its a common belief that bookmakers restrict winners too ;)

Surely they see... value bet > value bet > value bet> BIG WIN!!!

That guy IS an Arber.

Exactly, its not the withdrawal that gets you restricted, or that you are a winner, ITS THE WAY YOU BET.
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Re: Which softs for start up?
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2016, 08:11:32 PM »

Didn't you ask "How does the algorithm tell the difference?"

By identifying the lines you hit.
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Re: Which softs for start up?
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2016, 08:25:29 PM »

Didn't you ask "How does the algorithm tell the difference?"

By identifying the lines you hit.

You got it Matt. It looks at how you bet, the fact that you could be an arber, not the fact that you made a withdrawal.

It is possible that a withdrawal triggers a review of the account, but that does not really make sense. If you only detect arbers when they make a withdrawal it is too late. If openbet tried to sell me a system that did that I would be asking why can you not detect them before they have already taken my money ;)
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Re: Which softs for start up?
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2016, 08:26:59 PM »

Do you have any evidence to back up what you are saying luctens or are you just guessing that withdrawing is likely to get you limited?
It's simply my opinion, but withdrawing is obviously not going to make your account less likely to be limited, it's likely to be frowned upon by the bookmaker and will result in you having more chance of your account being limited as opposed to if you hadn't made that withdrawal, simple common sense will tell you that.

It simply stands to reason that every time you come into contact with a bookmaker, that's just an additional opportunity for them to have a look over your account and possibly get you limited, so the less you come into contact with the bookmaker, the less chance there is of somebody looking over your account and limiting it.

And one of the big means of contact you have with the bookmaker is if you request a withdrawal, and of course if you make a withdrawal, that's money going out from the bookmaker to the customer, so the bookmaker is often going to want to look over your account to see if you need to be limited.

So it stands to reason that the less withdrawals you make, the less times somebody has a chance to look over your account because you've made a withdrawal, so the less chance your account has of being limited.

Like your previous posts about bookmakers, your views of how they operate are being clouded by your opinion of them. If you stop to think about what you are saying, I think you will find that restricting because of a withdrawal makes no sense at all for a bookmaker. Presenting personal opinions as facts is not the best way to go about things, especially when talking to a newbie who may take what you are saying as gospel  ;)

While I agree with the Luctens part  ;) ;), I disagree about the withdrawal part of it.  Bookmakers won't restrict you simply because you ask for a withdrawal as I don't think they care that much, but every contact and every request you make does increase the chance of them looking over that account and finding something they don't like thus it increases, indirectly, the chance of your account getting limited.
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