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Featured In The Student Guide & Hand Holding Service (page 2)

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Author Topic: Featured In The Student Guide & Hand Holding Service  (Read 905 times)
luctens
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« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2016, 03:08:49 PM »

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Luctens, your entire post is based on the assumption they get their money from a revenue deal.  What about them having a deal where they get a fixed amount per signup?

I always assumed it was a flat rate per referral - how does the affiliate know what kind of turnover one of their referrals makes?

A flat rate makes more sense for both parties IMO

Maybe Nikos can confirm?
Affiliates have affiliate accounts with the bookmakers that lists all of their referred players' betting activity with turnover, profit/loss etc, so affiliates on revenue share deals know exactly what position their players are in at any one time in terms of profit/loss etc.
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luctens
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« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2016, 03:13:47 PM »

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Luctens, your entire post is based on the assumption they get their money from a revenue deal.  What about them having a deal where they get a fixed amount per signup?

I always assumed it was a flat rate per referral - how does the affiliate know what kind of turnover one of their referrals makes?

A flat rate makes more sense for both parties IMO

Maybe Nikos can confirm?

Most soft bookies have a flat rate per signup.  Others, like the sharps (sbo, maxbet, pinnacle etc) give a small % on the turnover.
Most soft bookies do have the option of a flat rate per signup, but pretty much all soft bookies also have the option of a revenue share deal. Pretty much every bookmaker in the world has the option of a CPA or a revenue share deal, with the sharps having in addition a third option of a percentage of turnover.
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Alfa1234
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« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2016, 03:15:42 PM »

The point is, in short:

You condemn them for a business model because some of their users become bookie clients and will make bookies money.  They say this is true and don't hide it at all.  They also say that probably won't be the case for clients that come from this forum, yet they still advertise their service here.

I fail to see why a service should care what their clients do after those clients are finished with said service.  You obviously condemn them for not having a "holier than thou" approach.  You say they should guide their clients to a sustained life of advanced smart betting, but fail to see no business model exists where this can happen as the money has to come from somewhere, in this case the bookies. 

Come on Luctens, don't be stupid, everybody is in it to make money and you shouldn't condemn them for wanting a piece of the pie whilst similtaneously at least trying to help some of their members to make money.

If anything, they've done a good job at opening up matched betting opportunities for a larger part of the general public because most other businesses charge a one time or monthly fee for the same service so in that case the money does not even come from the bookie but from the mug punters that are subscribing.  Is this better?  Who says those services aren't also on a revenue share and are taking money from their mug clients and the bookies at the same time?

I've said my peace.  I know you will reply with another long-winded post reïtterating the same thing over and over again so I won't reply anymore...that does not mean you've won the argument.
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Ingarb3
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« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2016, 03:21:21 PM »

Alfa1234, luctens is a troll. Admittedly a very good troll. He had me going before. I've seen him doing it on many forums. Fair play to him  :)
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luctens
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« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2016, 04:03:02 PM »

The point is, in short:

You condemn them for a business model because some of their users become bookie clients and will make bookies money.  They say this is true and don't hide it at all.  They also say that probably won't be the case for clients that come from this forum, yet they still advertise their service here.

I fail to see why a service should care what their clients do after those clients are finished with said service.  You obviously condemn them for not having a "holier than thou" approach.  You say they should guide their clients to a sustained life of advanced smart betting, but fail to see no business model exists where this can happen as the money has to come from somewhere, in this case the bookies. 

Come on Luctens, don't be stupid, everybody is in it to make money and you shouldn't condemn them for wanting a piece of the pie whilst similtaneously at least trying to help some of their members to make money.

If anything, they've done a good job at opening up matched betting opportunities for a larger part of the general public because most other businesses charge a one time or monthly fee for the same service so in that case the money does not even come from the bookie but from the mug punters that are subscribing.  Is this better?  Who says those services aren't also on a revenue share and are taking money from their mug clients and the bookies at the same time?

I've said my peace.  I know you will reply with another long-winded post reïtterating the same thing over and over again so I won't reply anymore...that does not mean you've won the argument.
You say "You condemn them for a business model because some of their users become bookie clients and will make bookies money.  They say this is true and don't hide it at all.  They also say that probably won't be the case for clients that come from this forum, yet they still advertise their service here."

I don't condemn them because some of their users become bookie clients and make bookies money". I condemn them for profiting off that as they try to come across as the punters' friend and the punters' ally in taking money off the bookies, but that's complete rubbish, as they are only interested in punters that turn from matched betting to mug punting. Matched bettors that stop and do no more betting make them no money, and matched bettors that turn to arbing etc lose them money, so RaidTheBookie aren't in this to make punters money whatsoever, they're only in this to get people into betting in the first place through matched betting and for those customers to turn into losing mug punters.

You say "They also say that probably won't be the case for clients that come from this forum, yet they still advertise their service here." Whatever they say that users of this forum won't turn into mug punters, they obviously don't believe that, as their service only makes money by getting people into matched betting that then turn into mug punters, so they obviously believe there's plenty of mugs to be plucked out of this forum that will become mug punters in the end, as otherwise they wouldn't be on this forum, as without mug punters to pluck out this forum they wouldn't be here, as they only advertise in places where they believe there will be mug punters, as mug punters are the only way they make any money.

You say "I fail to see why a service should care what their clients do after those clients are finished with said service.  You obviously condemn them for not having a "holier than thou" approach.  You say they should guide their clients to a sustained life of advanced smart betting, but fail to see no business model exists where this can happen as the money has to come from somewhere, in this case the bookies."

RaidTheBookie are trying to dress themselves up as a site that will help the punter make money from the bookmakers, so obviously they should "care what their clients do after those clients are finished with said service". If they don't care what the customer does afterwards, then obviously they don't care that much at all about making the punters' money, and especially where their business model relies on these customers turning into mug punters, they obviously don't care one jot about punters winning money, the reverse in fact, in that they are in this for losing mug punters, not winners, as losing mug punters is the only way they make any money.

If they have to charge an upfront fee or monthly fee to the customer in order to advise the customer in the long term on smart betting techniques in order to make the business model viable whilst getting rid of the revenue share deals, then so be it. Whatever monthly fee the customer would be paying in order to get the advice to go further with smart betting would be much better money spent than getting a "free" service from RaidTheBookie, but paying for it many times over in the long run by RaidTheBookie leaving you high and dry and more likely to go onto mug punting rather than continue with smart betting because they give you no advice or anything going forward to continue with smart betting. This would also show that RaidTheBookie are actually interested in making the punters money as the punters would only keep paying long term if they were giving useful advice and as they wouldn't have any revenue share deals, their only focus would be on smart customers winning money, not mug punters losing money. If there is no viable business model without revenue share deals bootlegging off mug punters' losses, then any self respecting company would shut up shop, especially one that says they are in it to help punters win money.

You say "Come on Luctens, don't be stupid, everybody is in it to make money and you shouldn't condemn them for wanting a piece of the pie whilst similtaneously at least trying to help some of their members to make money."

I will condemn them for wanting a piece of the pie, which is the mug punters losing money pie. Any site that is bootlegging off the back of mug punters' losses in order to make any money is unethical and immoral, it's as simple as that. And especially a site that is indulging in these activities whilst trying to play the charade of helping the punter win money off bookmakers. Utterly despicable.

And you just don't get it do you? You say RaidTheBookie are "at least trying to help some of their members to make money". You've obviously been brainwashed by them. They aren't in this to make money for anybody whatsoever in the long term. In a utopian world for RaidTheBookie, they would have all of their customers win a few quid off matched betting but them all turn into long term losing mug punters. And a site with that aim is most definitely not "trying to help some of their members to make money" whatsoever, they want as many of their customers as possible to lose in the long term, as that's the only way they'd make any money.

You ask if the services that charge a monthly fee or whatever and have revenue share deals are any better than RaidTheBookie. They're half way there. The only way a service of this type can be credible in any way whatsoever in actually genuinely wanting customers to win money is to charge a monthly fee or whatever and have no affiliate deals whatsoever with the bookmakers. A service that's only income source is from punter's subscriptions is the only type of service that can truthfully say they are in it to make punters' money, as their income would only continue if they're doing a good service for the customer as they wouldn't keep paying otherwise, and a service like that would actually want customers to continue winning, as it's only winning customers that would keep paying their subscriptions, and a service such as this wouldn't want customers to lose, because their income wouldn't depend on it whatsoever from any revenue share deals etc. And as I said before, if there is no viable business model without revenue share deals bootlegging off mug punters' losses, then any self respecting company would shut up shop, especially one that says they are in it to help punters win money.

The very simple thing is, RaidTheBookie's enemies are arbers/value bettors/smart bettors/long term winners, and their friends are the long term losing mug punters and the bookmakers, and that tells you all you need to know that everybody on this forum should be against them, as us, the smart punter, are the enemy to them.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2016, 04:15:00 PM by luctens » Logged

luctens
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« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2016, 04:16:55 PM »

Alfa1234, luctens is a troll. Admittedly a very good troll. He had me going before. I've seen him doing it on many forums. Fair play to him  :)
For the umpteenth time, your silly little fantasy that I'm a "troll" is complete and utter rubbish. Just because somebody doesn't agree with you, that doesn't make them a "troll", deal with it.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2016, 04:24:32 PM by luctens » Logged

RaidTheBookie.com
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« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2016, 10:03:04 AM »

With all respect luctens ... you have absolutely no idea what our business model is but it's safe to say it's not 100% surrounded by rev share deals. So on that basis pretty much everything you have said regarding our service is incorrect. You also clearly didn't notice that we have a partnership with Rebel Betting and advise our users with pretty blatant instructions to use them once they've exhausted all of our offers.

Maybe before you post such long winded arguments that are full of incorrect information you should do some of your own research first? For reference this is taken directly from our site:

What can I do once I've completed all bookie bonuses?
Arbitrage sports betting. Using the same concept that we use here at Raid The Bookie, members can lock in guaranteed returns, up to 20% a month on your vested capital! It's a profitable investment strategy that takes advantage of price differences between bookmakers. Another investment vehicle for financially savvy people. Raid The Bookie specialises in 'bonus bagging'. That is our niche. Once you have completed all of our bonus offers (below), you should use Rebel Betting to generate guaranteed monthly recurring income.

You try and help people out with a FREE service, provide them a way to make money and start out in matched betting and you get that type of response. Makes us question why we bother! Thanks for the support Alfa1234 and others, it helps keep us motivated anyway!
« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 01:21:23 PM by RaidTheBookie.com » Logged


Gamblers Ruin
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« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2016, 12:49:37 PM »

I don't really understand all the negativity, this seems like a decent service.

Anyone hovering on the forum thinking about arbing should consider doing this first, it's a safer way to get started and learn the ropes when it's only the bookies' free offers you're risking.

That said, I've heard it mentioned on this forum that taking welcome offers flags your account to the bookie and it certainly opens you up to some of their harsher winnings-confiscating T&Cs, so that die-hard arbers don't use them.

Also, Luctens, gambling is fun, that's why so many do it. If RaidTheBookie creates a "mug punter" (even through this forum) and gives them a head start, that's also ok.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 12:51:21 PM by Gamblers Ruin » Logged

Bubbles
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« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2016, 04:52:54 PM »

You try and help people out with a FREE service, provide them a way to make money and start out in matched betting and you get that type of response. Makes us question why we bother!
You're a fairy godmother, aren't you?

If what you wrote is any answer to Lucten's reservations it certainly isn't to mine. When I answered your post boasting a huge increase in new users thanks to 'The Student Guide' featuring you in their annual publication which is available everywhere I didn't take a high moral ground to criticize you for hooking up millions of punters to be exploited by books but stressed what irreversible damage publicizing sport arbitrage to millions can do. And as you stressed in response to Lucten's criticism this is exactly what you do. It must be obvious to everyone, as much as it is a selfish point of view, that the fewer ppl were aware of arbitrage the better it worked for those in the know. As more ppl started joining the game the more difficult it gradually became as books had to adopt to this new challenge and find measures to defend themselves. I dare say that arbitrage can exist only as a niche. Even if it's quite a broad one by now it's still a niche. Advertising it in a mass medium aimed at freshers - over 500 thousand last year! - can change it in a blink.
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RaidTheBookie.com
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« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2016, 05:59:39 PM »

I do hear your point but our intentions are never to harm to community here. The owner of this forum also doesn't think that way either. I do hear your opinion though but I can assure you we don't have millions of members even with advertising. The number of members that go on to use Rebel Betting from our site is minimal at best despite us advising so. So I think your niche description or the arbing community is a very accurate one and not one that we are seeking to damage.

The main motive of the initial post here was to show that we are a serious opportunity to look into and not some run of the mill bagging site that asks you for money to use it's service (like another who used to have a section on here).

It's worth noting, we are also using a public forum named Arbusers, which is open access to the average Joe. Without services like ours and the other paid for services, this forum wouldn't exist either. Whilst that would make the area even more niche, the information this forum provides would not exist for that niche community either.

I do hear your point though, so this is not meant as a retaliation post by any means. Maybe we need to agree to disagree :-)
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maletaja
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« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2016, 06:05:26 PM »

I just wondering why so much "services" want to be part of  arbers niche markets. Its wasting time and money. You can create more important things which mankind need, using your programming skills
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Bubbles
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« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2016, 06:45:12 PM »

@RaidTheBookie.com

“I do hear your opinion though but I can assure you we don't have millions of members even with advertising.”

The advertising was only in September but it's a mile step in wrong direction.

“Without services like ours and the other paid for services, this forum wouldn't exist either.”

Absolutely not true. There was another forum before this forum and it did just fine without services like yours. Whoever was smart in betting would know it whether they were into arbing or not. But one had to know something about sport betting to find it - as opposed to thousands of complete mugs having it served on a plate.
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RaidTheBookie.com
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« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2016, 09:02:10 PM »

Absolutely not true. There was another forum before this forum and it did just fine without services like yours.

Where is that forum now? There's a reason there's adverts plastered all over this forum.
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middler
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« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2016, 09:58:49 PM »

Come on, we cannot be so naive...

It's pretty obvious that this is a lucrative website, that was built with the main purpose of making money through affiliate marketing among other things, as well as any other business.

Lucky for many of us, it is of big help, and does not only provide value for it's owner, but for almost anyone who reads through it.

The owner wouldn't have created a tool to share such valuable and almost secret knowledge for free, and that's just fine. I believe all of us are here to try to make money one way or another, and if you think about it, we are competing against each other to take this money out of the same people.

Like it or not, the only reason for creating any business around sports arbitrage, such as arb software, forums, guides, is because it is potentially more profitable to share the knowledge than to use it yourself.

Arbusers probably noticed this before anyone here, and now runs a forum which is public, and with the main goal to get as many people as he can to subscribe to the services he promotes. If he can help anyone on his way, that's good, win-win situation, but don't even think for a second that the aim of this website is too different from the aim of Betburger, Rebelbetting, raidthebookie, or any "helping website".

Even though the industry gets more competitive, I cannot be against it at all, as it is just another way of profiting from this industry, which once again, is the main goal of absolutely everyone who has ever registered to this website.

My point is, if you are against this guy, be against arbitrage softwares; who are bigger help for bookies than for us, be against this and other forums; where people get free valuable knowledge to compete with you, and be against anyone who tries to make money out of sports betting (or anyone out there who wants to make money)
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Bubbles
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« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2016, 10:10:13 PM »

Absolutely not true. There was another forum before this forum and it did just fine without services like yours.

Where is that forum now?
As far as I remember Boy Owen focused on entirely different project and got disengaged in arbing. Simple as that. Fortunately, one of the smartest contributors took it from there...

"There's a reason there's adverts plastered all over this forum."

There's “adverts plastered all over this forum” because the owner of this forum has to make a living too. Fair enough. And if there's any extra deal in it for some of us even better. The first forum, like this one, had ads which were addressed to arbers. Ads for arbers in arbers' forum. Neither of them advertised arbing in mass media...
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