Automated betting service between Sharp bookies & Exchanges

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Oldboy
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Hi,

I have almost no experience in arbitrage betting so this idea might sound stupid  :P. But what's stoping people from creating a automated service that places sure bets between different sharp bookies such as Pinnacle, Sbobet, Dafabet and also exchanges such as Smarkets, Matchbook, Betfair and Betdaq?

A quick look tells me that most of them have API which would make it a lot easier to make one. And since most of them allow arbitrage betting (If I understood that correctly), there's no obstacle there.

If this works, it already exists for sure and people behind it probably not want to talk about it. But has anyone here in this forum heard about such a automated service?  What happens if more automations enters this segment? Thoughts ideas on this?
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Alfa1234
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Alfa1234

Re: Automated betting service between Sharp bookies & Exchanges
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2017, 01:20:22 PM »

It's possible but very hard to do because of a bunch of limitations:

- you can only request new limits and prices of the apis every x seconds...causing a large % of the opportunities to be gone even though your bot "thinks" they are still there.
- mistakes happen because team names, league names etc are different between the sites
- your bot has to be ultra quick because sometimes only 1 bet of the 2 will be placed and the other odd will be gone already, causing you to take a small loss
- usually we talk about a very low arb % in this case, so you need a very large bankroll to make any decent money at all. 
- forget about live betting because you have the "danger zone" in the sharp bookies
- getting api acess is not as easy as you think for the sites besides Betfair and Pinnacle
...
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thorocska
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thorocska

Re: Automated betting service between Sharp bookies & Exchanges
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2017, 01:59:56 PM »

bbc_standard_quote">- getting api acess is not as easy as you think for the sites besides Betfair and Pinnacle
...

You are right. I don't understand why SBO have no public API. It is seems they are not so sharp to open the gate for BOTs. Anyway asians make profit from volume, so why they restricts API access that would generate more volume for them?
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Oldboy
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Re: Automated betting service between Sharp bookies & Exchanges
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2017, 08:43:12 PM »

But isn't most of those obstacles the same as for regular alert services? An API would of course make it a lot easier to create a bot. But there's always the option of scraping the information from the bookies. And there're ways to make the frequency of the updates quite fast through that method.

The bot needs to be quick. But my guess is that this could be achieved. I think a bot will make less mistakes and be quicker than any person doing the same thing. At least in the long run. The advantage is that the bot will bet every time an arbitrage exists. So even though the arbs are small, many of them will generate money. 

Could you explain "- forget about live betting because you have the "danger zone" in the sharp bookies"? Remember I'm a total novice in this.
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Alfa1234
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Re: Automated betting service between Sharp bookies & Exchanges
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2017, 11:52:19 PM »

Scraping is quite hard because you would have to refresh the page more often than the sites allow to get the most updated info all the time with the effect that your arbs are also often out of date before you can bet them.  Remember these arbs exist for less than a second.

Sharp bookies only accept live bets when the ball is "clear", so there is no danger of a goal being scored.  Each site has different rules for this.  Exchanges accept live bets after a small delay regardless of where the ball is at that point except when there is a penalty or so. 
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maletaja
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maletaja

Re: Automated betting service between Sharp bookies & Exchanges
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2017, 08:37:38 AM »

No chance!

1)You have to make commisions to the exhange...
2)massive errors i assume

And most thing why waste IT resources to the area when you are dependable on bookies(independent company) when you can put your brains and money to the forex with  6 trilion revenue!!! or stock market
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yorkjoss
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yorkjoss

Re: Automated betting service between Sharp bookies & Exchanges
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2017, 10:11:10 AM »

bbc_standard_quote">Remember I'm a total novice in this.

and obviously a smart guy too? but not smart enough to realise that no guy who is doing the
same or similar to what you are suggesting is going to help you....and why should they?

I am sure you are familiar with "too many cooks spoil the broth"
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 10:14:11 AM by yorkjoss » Logged
Bubbles
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Re: Automated betting service between Sharp bookies & Exchanges
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2017, 02:36:46 PM »

And before you start overcoming all the difficulties mentioned above try to put your BF (which would be your main exchange) commission to the level which will create arbs with Asians, keeping in mind that you want to avoid premium charge...
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Oldboy
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Oldboy

Re: Automated betting service between Sharp bookies & Exchanges
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2017, 05:02:59 PM »

bbc_standard_quote">
and obviously a smart guy too? but not smart enough to realise that no guy who is doing the
same or similar to what you are suggesting is going to help you....and why should they?

I am sure you are familiar with "too many cooks spoil the broth"

Of course no one already doing this, are going to help me. Not expecting that. I'm also aware that even the regular arbuser have reasons not to help, since that kind of automated betting could potentially 'take' good odds from them.

But the idea of automated bots must have crossed many minds. Specially cause this business rely on alert services, that functions pretty much like that, with the exception of not placing the bet.

I don't hope to get any tips or ideas (even though I appreciate Bubbles advice), but more to open up a discussion. Thanks for your comments so far  :)
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dealer wins
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dealer wins

Re: Automated betting service between Sharp bookies & Exchanges
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2017, 10:09:05 PM »

Its very rare for Pinny and the exchange to be out even 1%, let alone 2 or 3% that would be needed with commission!

On big markets, it never happens, on smaller ones liquidity on BF is poor and unreliable.
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Oldboy
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Oldboy

Re: Automated betting service between Sharp bookies & Exchanges
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2017, 01:35:15 PM »

bbc_standard_quote">Its very rare for Pinny and the exchange to be out even 1%, let alone 2 or 3% that would be needed with commission!

On big markets, it never happens, on smaller ones liquidity on BF is poor and unreliable.

Ok. So this brings me to another question that I have. How does Pinnacle, Dafabet, Sbobet set their odds? From what I've been reading here at the forum, the odds move according to how people bet. So a large bet will move the line. Did I get that right? ??? If this is true, differences must exits between sharp bookies (at least in theory) :-\.

And shouldn't this be the case for exchanges as well? Since they're only a marketplace for bets, odds must differ between the exchanges when bets are placed. But maybe the commission eats it all up as you say? :P

The arbitrage doesn't need to be big. Rather many, for this kind of automation to be profitable. That's my assumption right now  :).
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 01:48:39 PM by Oldboy » Logged
NedlogViiibes
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Re: Automated betting service between Sharp bookies & Exchanges
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2017, 02:15:22 PM »

The bookmakers have different customers. Some are winning, some are losing. A big bet from a winning player would move the line more than a big bet from a losing player (if the odds would even move from the losing player).
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Oldboy
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Oldboy

Re: Automated betting service between Sharp bookies & Exchanges
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2017, 09:15:29 PM »

Thanks for clarifying that NedlogViiibes  :)

I found www.asianodds88.com in another topic here at the forum. They provide API to Pinnacle, Maxbet, Singbet, Sbobet, Betisn and Galaxy bet for a monthly fee. Does anyone have experience with them?

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NedlogViiibes
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Re: Automated betting service between Sharp bookies & Exchanges
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2017, 10:00:50 PM »

And by the way. I don't doubt there sometimes exist arbs between sharps/sharps or sharps/exchanges. I remember reading a post from a member of this forum some time ago (I think it was Arbusers), where he wrote about how he used to find arbs between Betfair and Pinnacle. From what I remember he made around €50.000 monthly on that. Don't hang me up on this though.

I have no idea whether you can set up some automated bot to do the bets.
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Alfa1234
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Alfa1234

Re: Automated betting service between Sharp bookies & Exchanges
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2017, 10:18:21 PM »

He also said you needed a BF account with a rediculously low commission rate  (I believe it was under 2%).  I believe markets have gotten too efficient now to take advantage of stuff between Pinnacle and Betfair.
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