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Arbing/sportsbetting TAX Free Countries

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BudSpencer
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Re: Arbing/sportsbetting TAX Free Countries

Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:36 pm

Mates, don´t fight each other, it doesn´t helps. The Life is too short for that.

The main problem of arbing is i guess, how are you gonna explain the transaction between the accounts, if they ever ask you. because you are not 100% betting for your own, so you have to open a company? and pay tax?

I thought i can find here some guys who really go abroad for arbing, specially UK or even Malta...because that is what i mostly hear from others, which country would they go.
But the topic is is really difficult.
And to be honest, i am more confused now then before, i start the thread.
Anyway, thanks for your posts here.

edit: not helpfull here to calling someone a troll, and tbh he doesn´t sounds for me like a troll
Last edited by BudSpencer on Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
sideprofits
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Re: Arbing/sportsbetting TAX Free Countries

Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:22 pm

Alfa's opinion is based on solid ground. Read again what he says. Your opinion is based on nothing and don't disorientate the guy. If he believes you, you will cause him significant loss.
barbero
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Re: Arbing/sportsbetting TAX Free Countries

Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:38 pm

In my understanding, that is not the case sideprofits. Money you make from betting is not taxable in the UK, full stop. yorkjoss actually made it crystal clear, even if he could consider being nicer to Alfa ;D

Yet Alfa did pose a very interesting question, which is that of how to spend the money you make. And then also Bud brought up another good one, of how to justify transactions between wallets or accounts of different people, if asked about them. I don't know the answer to either of them... but I think we all know the answer to the taxation issue so we shouldn't be really focusing on that if we want the thread to move on.
dealer wins
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Re: Arbing/sportsbetting TAX Free Countries

Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:52 am

There is no tax to pay on betting/gambling/arbing in the UK.

But if you are using other peoples accounts then its a grey area.  Because it could then be classed as operating a business, is illegal as its classed as fraud in the UK, and you could also be seen to be operating a bookmaker without a licence as well which is illegal, and obviously its against bookies t&cs.

Having been self employed all I can say is keep records of every bet you place, because if HMRC decide to investigate you and they think you are not declaring earnings to them, then expect hell and you will need to prove all your arbing profits with evidence.  And if it involves transfers to and from other people you could well be in real trouble.
Never trust a goose!!!
yo
yorkjoss

Re: Arbing/sportsbetting TAX Free Countries

Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:07 am

sideprofits wrote: Alfa's opinion is based on solid ground. Read again what he says. Your opinion is based on nothing and don't disorientate the guy. If he believes you, you will cause him significant loss.
maybe you should read what alfa is saying sideprofits and honourably he admitted he was wrong with his post.

I already tell you not to do the OP's thinking for him and the guy sent me a pm thanking me for my reply

wipe the tears from your eyes sideprofits and read posts more carefully.

not banned despite all your pleads to the owner

sideprofits, I am still here
yo
yorkjoss

Re: Arbing/sportsbetting TAX Free Countries

Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:21 am

dealer wins wrote: There is no tax to pay on betting/gambling/arbing in the UK.

But if you are using other peoples accounts then its a grey area.  Because it could then be classed as operating a business, is illegal as its classed as fraud in the UK, and you could also be seen to be operating a bookmaker without a licence as well which is illegal, and obviously its against bookies t&cs.

Having been self employed all I can say is keep records of every bet you place, because if HMRC decide to investigate you and they think you are not declaring earnings to them, then expect hell and you will need to prove all your arbing profits with evidence.  And if it involves transfers to and from other people you could well be in real trouble.
disgusting scaremongering

this post is only written to scare people and is full of things that have never happened, all things are possible like a massive meteor hitting the earth but if we worry about unlikely events or things that have never happened we might as well quit arbing,

this is what that post is about, intended to put people off and is complete BS, talking of fraud when there is no fraud is just ridiculous, arbers do not break the law, is not illegal and is achieved by placing bets with bookmakers (gambling) which is not taxed in the UK.
Alfa1234
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Re: Arbing/sportsbetting TAX Free Countries

Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:58 am

Regardless it's sound advice to keep a detailed record and accounting of all your bets, even if you'll never need it.
yo
yorkjoss

Re: Arbing/sportsbetting TAX Free Countries

Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:41 pm

Alfa1234 wrote: Regardless it's sound advice to keep a detailed record and accounting of all your bets, even if you'll never need it.
sound advice to keep a detailed record of all your bets? why is the sound advice? what purpose does this serve other than to waste your time and complicate things?

there was no sound advice whatsoever in dealerloser's post, just pure scaremongering and jealousy as per usual

honestly the nonsense you read on this forum is staggering

if i was a newbie thinking of starting arbing then i'd never start if i read and believed the clowns who write on here.

newbies my advice, ignore these guys, these guys would hardly cross a road for fear of being hit by a car, there is good money to be made from arbing, what alfa, dealer and sideprofits write is designed to scare you and make things sound more dangerous and complicated than they actually are when actually if a guy like me can be a successful arber for many years then it can't be that difficult and i couldn't tell you what I bet yesterday

sideprofits, I'm still here ;)
Last edited by yorkjoss on Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Alfa1234
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Re: Arbing/sportsbetting TAX Free Countries

Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:57 pm

Are you seriously saying that keeping a detailed accounting is a waste of time?

In that case, I'm going to say you've probably lost quite a bit of money because of it.

It has saved me thousands, by being able to tell my accounting does not correspond to the betting balance in the bookie.  Bookies regularly grade bets the wrong way (fact).  If I didn't keep a detailed accounting, I probably would never notice and be able to call them upon it.
yo
yorkjoss

Re: Arbing/sportsbetting TAX Free Countries

Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:04 pm

Alfa1234 wrote: Are you seriously saying that keeping a detailed accounting is a waste of time?

In that case, I'm going to say you've probably lost quite a bit of money because of it.

It has saved me thousands, by being able to tell my accounting does not correspond to the betting balance in the bookie.  Bookies regularly grade bets the wrong way (fact).  If I didn't keep a detailed accounting, I probably would never notice and be able to call them upon it.
detailed accounting for the reasons dealerwins posted and you then supported is a complete waste of time, he was advising this in regards to taxation and you posted in support.

if you want to keep detailed records to check on bets being settled correctly that's a different matter and not what is being discussed, personally i don't do this and never have as i want to keep arbing as simple as possible.

keeping a detailed record is one thing, having a quick manual check which takes little time to see if your bets is settled properly is another, you can make your job at arbing as easy or as complicated as you wish, either way if you are a smart arber you're bank balance is only going to keep on growing, with or without having a record of every single bet you've made, in my opinion this is as I said a complete waste of your valuable time.

you said bookmakers regularly grade bets the wrong way (fact), in my personal experience this is not a regular occurrence

this is not what was being discussed, you have moved things in another direction alfa to justify your posts, keeping a detailed record of all your bets in relation to the taxman in the UK is as I said a complete waste of your time

sideprofits, I'm still here ;D
Last edited by yorkjoss on Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Alfa1234
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Re: Arbing/sportsbetting TAX Free Countries

Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:24 pm

For tax reasons, I can understand you UK guys would find it somewhat useless...but it can't hurt just in case the law does change or if there ever becomes legal precedence.

I know for a fact some of the bookies I use grade bets wrongly quite often, at least 1 in 50 bets or so...but I suppose it depends on the bookie and as I use other bookies where I've never had this problem it's simply a matter of which you use.  Either way, it only takes a few seconds after each bet to update your accounting and it can be quite handy for a bunch of things (verification, calculating ROI etc etc).

I love numbers so simply having everything add up to the 2nd decimal point in my accounting is a joy in itself and is part of what makes arbing fun for me...I can't even imagine not keeping a detailed track of everything but everyone is different.  :)
yo
yorkjoss

Re: Arbing/sportsbetting TAX Free Countries

Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:32 pm

Alfa1234 wrote: For tax reasons, I can understand you UK guys would find it somewhat useless...but it can't hurt just in case the law does change or if there ever becomes legal precedence.
yes it is useless and if the law did change then i'd quit on the spot......but I've had a good run and wouldn't complain

i'd say that the laws changing in the UK to include gambling profits is extremely unlikely in the near term, there's not even been a case for about 60 years, arbing in the uk is not widely known, poker players are and even they still don't have to pay tax, if they did then I'd start to think differently but a recent appeals court ruled poker a game of chance (gambling) therefore not liable for tax

I'd advise any newbie to totally disregard dealerwins post, one which you supported alfa

oh and sideprofits I'm still here,
how does it feel to constantly call to your friend the owner for me to be banned? yet I'm still posting  8)
Last edited by yorkjoss on Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thordin
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Re: Arbing/sportsbetting TAX Free Countries

Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:51 pm

Regarding accounting it depends on your betting style.

I used to bet a lot, and writing everything down was costing time. I was also doing end-of-day accounting.
Sure every now and then I would find a grading error but I would not contact support in order to remain under the radar. I would wait a few days for someone else to find the error and ask for a fix. And in pretty much all the cases that happened, after a while it was all fixed.
Keep in mind, with the style I had back then, time really was money!. I would miss arbs just to go to my excel and log the last few bets.
So, I quit accounting. Pretty much how value bettor quit covering their bets. Works better in the long term.

After my style changed to a lot less number of bets, I figured I could start some accounting again.
I didn't expect to make anything out of it rather than a good feeling at the end of the day.

Anyway, I quit that and kinda trust the bookies. Every now and then I would feel something is off and spend sometime looking into history and its pretty much always my mistake, its all good.
yo
yorkjoss

Re: Arbing/sportsbetting TAX Free Countries

Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:00 pm

Thordin wrote: Regarding accounting it depends on your betting style.

I used to bet a lot, and writing everything down was costing time. I was also doing end-of-day accounting.
Sure every now and then I would find a grading error but I would not contact support in order to remain under the radar. I would wait a few days for someone else to find the error and ask for a fix. And in pretty much all the cases that happened, after a while it was all fixed.
Keep in mind, with the style I had back then, time really was money!. I would miss arbs just to go to my excel and log the last few bets.
So, I quit accounting. Pretty much how value bettor quit covering their bets. Works better in the long term.

After my style changed to a lot less number of bets, I figured I could start some accounting again.
I didn't expect to make anything out of it rather than a good feeling at the end of the day.

Anyway, I quit that and kinda trust the bookies. Every now and then I would feel something is off and spend sometime looking into history and its pretty much always my mistake, its all good.
this i suspect is a more common way for a full time arber to operate, of course we all evolve and have to if we wish
to continue our arbing successes and at the same time making our jobs less time consuming and stressful where possible.
BudSpencer
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Re: Arbing/sportsbetting TAX Free Countries

Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:04 pm

let me make something clear, i´m not a newbie and know that arbing is still profitable,
ofc we missed the best times of arbing right? that was 10-15 years ago, but it is still good.
and i know that people try to makes the newbies afraid of arbing in different ways "they cancel your bets" "bad bookie, won´t pay"
so they would give it up fast or won´t even start really.
however, to safe your bets with a easy screenshot tool, i would say is not a bad idea. not even only for tax, also if you withdrawal to your bank...they could maybe ask where the money comes from,
so i safed my bets. yes i agree also, at the same time i think...hey is it time wasting? do i miss some nice arbs?
but you can´t safe ALL your arbs, if you do that, then tbh you live only for betting.


back to the topic:

-Is it allowed for a UK citizen, to use example AC88? Because Sbo/Pin leave´s the UK markt and still not back i guess. :(
-how about if i stay for 6-7 month in UK and then decide to travel around the world? that sounds for me more like a enjoyable life...do we have here arber who travel and arb together?
-investment, still a big questionmark, very good point from Alfa
Alfa1234 wrote: How do you UK guys solve the problem of "spending" the money?  Let's say you want to buy a rather expensive house...considering gambling is not a profession there, you would not be able to get a mortgage loan based on that income. What about a car loan? I suppose you could simply save your profits, but getting a loan can often be beneficial, definitely when buying a house.  What did/do you do to solve this?
but if the winnings are tax free, then there is no problem...to get a loan from a bank as a gambler, is in every bank of the world, i would say impossible :D
-transaction
-did you guys thought about this idea?
http://arbusers.com/index.php/topic,5453.msg62584.html#msg62584

at the end, i have to say...i don´t understand why you guys all fight togehter, we are more powerful if we help each other, talk about experiences...ok maybe not everything here in a forum.
that is why the big questionmarks still exist. ^^
also why does a guy have this bad karma here, for me he sounds direct and honestly...but most of the people don´t like that way...
anyway, i hope to find some answers and i´m thankful to all helpful comments.
Last edited by BudSpencer on Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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