BetBurger | Live and Pre-game surebets
RebelBetting - Turn betting into investing

E-wallets and CRS

Exchange ideas and share info about all e-wallets
blackjack
Has experience
Has experienceHas experience
Karma: 14
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:01 pm

Re: E-wallets and CRS

Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:12 am

Ewallets accounts are perforated in the UK not only from bookmakers as I m sure you already know, but from the tax authorities too. I m sure more countries will follow.
User avatar
arbusers
Administrator
AdministratorAdministratorAdministratorAdministratorAdministrator
Contact:
Karma: 622
Posts: 6215
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:34 pm

Re: E-wallets and CRS

Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:45 pm

blackjack wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:12 am
Ewallets accounts are perforated in the UK not only from bookmakers as I m sure you already know, but from the tax authorities too. I m sure more countries will follow.

If any info is given from E-wallets to the tax authorities (or any other authorities), this is not because of the Common Reporting Standard but because of a request of some kind. As far as I know no country requested massively data from any e-wallet in regards to her citizens as a CRS result. You can never be sure of what the future brings, but for now e-wallets are outside the scope of the Common Reporting Standard (CRS).
Mtipster
Gaining experience
Gaining experience
Karma: 4
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:10 pm

Re: E-wallets and CRS

Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:03 am

Subscribed to email notifications on EC site long time ago, today the notification arrived.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-re ... rmation_en

It's mostly about crypto, but it's mentioned that e-money should be included in CRS (first PDF document).

Good news - there is enough time to react, As I understood, most of the regulations will be implemented starting 1st January 2026, TINs collected from 2027.
Well, we knew it will happen sooner or later.
User avatar
arbusers
Administrator
AdministratorAdministratorAdministratorAdministratorAdministrator
Contact:
Karma: 622
Posts: 6215
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:34 pm

Re: E-wallets and CRS

Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:02 pm

I would like to massively thank Mtipster for bringing this into our attention.

I spent some hours today studying and analysing the documents and here are my key take aways. Read carefully. I tried to make it as simple as possible, so everyone will understand.

1. It is confirmed that e-wallets are not a subject of the Common Reporting Standard (CRS) for now (December 2022). We already knew that and it is already highlighted in our forum. The relevant text is as following: ''For crypto-assets and e-money, there is no such obligation to report as crypto-assets and e-money as well as the relevant intermediaries for these assets are not currently fully covered by the Directive and hence national tax authorities cannot get this information from each other''.

2. We know that G20 world leaders jointly agreed on the extension of the Common Reporting Standard in Bali one month ago. Even though the EU is pioneering in these matters, we can suspect that other countries will follow her paradigm. We can only suppose that countries already complying with CRS, will comply with the extension too. Countries not complying with the CRS, most probably will not comply with the extension too. The text is as following: ''The extension of the scope of the Common Reporting Standard (CRS) to cover e- money, which resulted in an agreement in August 2022 and was welcomed by the G20 in the Bali Leaders’ Declaration7 in November 2022''.

3. We now know that e-wallets will collect and share data starting from 1st of January 2026. The text is as following: ''The Directive on administrative cooperation is to apply from 1 January 2026. Two exceptions are provided in the Directive. The provisions on the identification service apply from January 2025. Provisions on the verification on the tax identification number will only apply from January 2027''.

4. The sharing of data will take place after January 1st 2027, in the same manner like all other reportable data. The text is as following: ''Member States shall, by automatic exchange, communicate to the competent authority of any other Member State information on all categories of income and capital referred to in paragraph 1, first subparagraph, concerning residents of that other Member State. Such information shall concern taxable periods starting on or after 1 January 2026''.

5. EU member states will have to pass all required law before 31st of December 2025. The text is as following: ''Member States shall adopt and publish, by 31 December 2025 at the latest, the laws, regulations and administrative provisions necessary to comply with this Directive. They shall immediately inform the Commission thereof. They shall forthwith communicate to the Commission the text of those provisions. They shall apply those provisions from 1 January 2026''.

The directive is still open for discussion and debate, but practise has shown it is only pretentious. This Directive will go as it is right now, with minor changes to work as a fig tree's leaf.

It is my opinion that CRS is causing more damage than profit for the EU.

Crypto enthusiasts will be shocked when they realise the Tsunami that will hit them. I intent to start a new thread in regards to Cryptocurrencies and the Common Reporting Standard.

Let's face reality guys. E-wallets will report according to the Common Reporting Standard. If you are OK with that, go on use them. If you are not OK with that you should close your e-wallets before 31st of December 2025. If you want to play super safe, you should do it earlier. P2P transactions will be under immense scrutiny and I can anticipate they will cause a lot of problems.

Again, a smoke and mirror game will take place to calm you, but you now know what it is all about.
treblepop
Gaining experience
Gaining experience
Karma: 16
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:24 am

Re: E-wallets and CRS

Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:20 pm

well this looks a case of closing the stable door after the horse has bolted, it is also incredibly foolish to assume the EU does things for the best interest of the people of its member states
neopas
Pro
ProProProPro
Karma: 47
Posts: 527
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:08 pm

Re: E-wallets and CRS

Sat Dec 10, 2022 5:08 am

Simply put. We have 2023-2025 to use ewallets. After that no more ewallets for betting business. Should we short PaySafe stock now?
campeones
To become a Pro
To become a ProTo become a ProTo become a Pro
Karma: 75
Posts: 385
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:44 am

Re: E-wallets and CRS

Mon Dec 12, 2022 9:29 am

An important question would be, when ewallets start collecting TINs. All these people in the business and finance wait until the very last moment for painful changes. We have seen that when Betfair, Pinnacle, etc pull out from a market. They simply sent an email 1 week or even 1 day before the implementation. But what if ewallets decide to collect TINs today?

neopas wrote: Should we short PaySafe stock now?

As for that, you are already too late.
paul
Gaining experience
Gaining experience
Karma: 0
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:01 pm

Re: E-wallets and CRS

Mon Dec 12, 2022 9:56 am

assuming they will loose business as soon as they start collecting, they'll probably leave it for when they absolutely need to I think
ajeto
Has experience
Has experienceHas experience
Karma: 22
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:30 am

Re: E-wallets and CRS

Mon Dec 12, 2022 10:18 am

A nice booster for bitcoin adoption. Tools to use will be cold wallets IE Ledger, LN wallets IE Muun, bitcoin and stable coins.... Off shore bookies already do a big volumes of transactions via BTC. Hard times for Skrill....ETC
paul
Gaining experience
Gaining experience
Karma: 0
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:01 pm

Re: E-wallets and CRS

Mon Dec 12, 2022 10:42 am

if they go effetctively after the crypto to fiat end points (exchanges, debit cards..) even crypto would not be a safe haven. you would be stuck with crypto on cold wallets and no fiat exit besides P2P for cash.
probettor91
Gaining experience
Gaining experience
Karma: 5
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:37 pm

Re: E-wallets and CRS

Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:20 am

Interesting project law which will very strictly regulate the exchanging of crypto assets to fiat and vice versa
bitcoinik.com/now-crypto-transactions-above-e1k-in-eu-cant-be-done-anonymously/
Mtipster
Gaining experience
Gaining experience
Karma: 4
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:10 pm

Re: E-wallets and CRS

Mon Dec 12, 2022 12:21 pm

@paul Correct, this is not new, there was a huge discussion about MiCA few months ago, some EU parliament members were clearly lobbying for it an it went through, of course.

@campeones I think there is a law obligating them to inform you 30 days prior changing any T&C, giving you possibility to deny it and stop using the service. Even if they collect TIN's earlier, they won't exchange data before 2026., so there is time.

I've already made a plan to slowly phase out my poker career, catching up with coding again, after neglecting it for years. It was fun, but everything comes to an end. Time to become proper tax paying average Joe.
P.S. Anyone in search for front end/back end developer? ;D
probettor91
Gaining experience
Gaining experience
Karma: 5
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:37 pm

Re: E-wallets and CRS

Mon Dec 12, 2022 12:56 pm

Mtipster wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 12:21 pm
@paul Correct, this is not new, there was a huge discussion about MiCA few months ago, some EU parliament members were clearly lobbying for it an it went through, of course.

@campeones I think there is a law obligating them to inform you 30 days prior changing any T&C, giving you possibility to deny it and stop using the service. Even if they collect TIN's earlier, they won't exchange data before 2026., so there is time.

I've already made a plan to slowly phase out my poker career, catching up with coding again, after neglecting it for years. It was fun, but everything comes to an end. Time to become proper tax paying average Joe.
P.S. Anyone in search for front end/back end developer? ;D
These days I think it's easier to become millioner from coding than poker. :D
P.S Anyone in search for full stack marketing specialist.
User avatar
arbusers
Administrator
AdministratorAdministratorAdministratorAdministratorAdministrator
Contact:
Karma: 622
Posts: 6215
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:34 pm

Re: E-wallets and CRS

Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:55 pm

paul wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 9:56 am
assuming they will loose business as soon as they start collecting, they'll probably leave it for when they absolutely need to I think

You can never be sure, but most probably you are right.

paul wrote: if they go effetctively after the crypto to fiat end points (exchanges, debit cards..) even crypto would not be a safe haven. you would be stuck with crypto on cold wallets and no fiat exit besides P2P for cash.

Cash market will be king then, with unbelievable margin fees.


I would also like to comment on something else. The CRS is already applied in banking transactions all over Europe for some 5 years now. It is not something new. And yet again, betting with bookmakers did not stop. People continued to bet with bookmakers using both their bank accounts and their ewallets. That makes me believe those people who kept betting with their bank accounts, have absolutely no reasons to stop using their ewallets if they wish so.
It the P2P transactions that would create chaos. And if you can avoid P2P, then why should you stop using ewallets? We are already subjects of the CRS after all.
ajeto
Has experience
Has experienceHas experience
Karma: 22
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:30 am

Re: E-wallets and CRS

Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:07 pm

if they go effectively after the crypto to fiat end points (exchanges, debit cards..) even crypto would not be a safe haven. you would be stuck with crypto on cold wallets and no fiat exit besides P2P for cash.
The ban will fail. It would need 100% agreement of all countries of the world to successfully cut off FIAT on/off ramps and ban crypto and bitcoin. You know that bitcoin is nearly everywhere legal, in US is a commodity, Fidelity preparing for mass adoption, pension funds have it.... then you have countries/places like El Salvador, Lugano Swiss, Dubai..... Portugal, all the off shore countries. They don't give a shit if EU is trying to ban crypto. Then imagine the situation where your unwithdrawable digital EUR is losing 10% a year, ppl will run out of it and happily using LN on bitcoin to exchange SATS between each other and between businesses,

There is no way back, like there is no way back for music publishers to stop internet downloads or streaming platforms. Also telecom phone companies have lost their business of selling you expensive international calls since Skype, Whatsup.......

Return to “General talk about e-wallets”