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Neteller fee raise

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Author Topic: Neteller fee raise  (Read 1424 times)
ratioxz
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« on: August 16, 2016, 02:23:43 PM »

We would like to notify you of an upcoming change to the NETELLER fee structure. You can review the new fees here.
https://www.neteller.com/en/fees

Deposit to skrill from 1.9% to 3% *Effective October 17 2016, the Deposit to Skrill Fee will change to 3%.
Friend transfer from 1% capped at 10$ to 1.9% capped at 20$ *Effective October 17 2016, the Money transfer fee will change from 1% to 1.9%, capped at $20

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luctens
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« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2016, 09:15:25 PM »

We would like to notify you of an upcoming change to the NETELLER fee structure. You can review the new fees here.
https://www.neteller.com/en/fees

Deposit to skrill from 1.9% to 3% *Effective October 17 2016, the Deposit to Skrill Fee will change to 3%.
Friend transfer from 1% capped at 10$ to 1.9% capped at 20$ *Effective October 17 2016, the Money transfer fee will change from 1% to 1.9%, capped at $20
Their greed has no boundaries. Especially with Skrill to Neteller and friend to friend transfers, these are the two things that would surely cost them next to nothing as it would just be transferring money between their own processors so this isn't done to cover their costs or whatever, this is a blatant money grab by some monopolists who think nobody can touch them. Absolutely disgraceful.

In my view, these ever increasing fee changes is corporate suicide and is getting to be pretty much a carbon copy of Betfair. The trouble with Skrill/Neteller is that they have nowhere near as many USPs that Betfair had in their heyday so it would be even easier in the e-wallet market than the betting exchange market for either Ecopayz or a brand new competitor to come in and flush these money grabbing merchants out of the ground by offering a low margin, low cost alternative. I see so many similarities to Smarkets coming in and challenging Betfair to what could very well easily happen in the e-wallet market too, and happen at an even faster rate than the Smarkets challenge to Betfair. Maybe even Smarkets could use their expertise to creating an e-wallet as it would be pretty much the same business model, concept and ethos that they are using in the betting exchange market, who knows.

Like with Betfair, if Skrill/Neteller continue on their merry way increasing fee after fee, they will create irreparable damage with their customers absolutely hating them and wanting to leave as soon as possible and rather than with Betfair where in the end it will take around 15 years from the start of their greed from them to fall off their perch, I give it 5 years before Skrill/Neteller get toppled over as long as a competitor can offer a low cost, low margin alternative to this disgusting corporate greed.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 10:04:34 PM by luctens » Logged

dealer wins
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« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2016, 09:57:51 PM »

Ive not used Skrill now since June, I was putting well over £100K a month through them for the 2 years previous.  Debit cards and bank transfers are slightly more hassle, but offer more security.  And I dont like greedy companies so will put myself out to avoid them (and NT obviously)
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Alfa1234
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« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2016, 10:55:06 PM »

Ive not used Skrill now since June, I was putting well over £100K a month through them for the 2 years previous.  Debit cards and bank transfers are slightly more hassle, but offer more security.  And I dont like greedy companies so will put myself out to avoid them (and NT obviously)

Ditto, emailed them several times about it.  Have not used it ever since they took away my last hassle-free deposit option (Sofort).  If they lose enough revenue, something will change...I hope.
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ProfGambler
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« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2016, 12:48:42 AM »

Ive not used Skrill now since June, I was putting well over £100K a month through them for the 2 years previous.  Debit cards and bank transfers are slightly more hassle, but offer more security.  And I dont like greedy companies so will put myself out to avoid them (and NT obviously)

Same here. I 99.9% prefer to use bank and card transfer. It's takes time but I know it's safest option available.
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Skaggerak
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« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2016, 02:17:18 PM »

It would be at least slightly understandable if they guaranteed any sort of security but we know it's a grey area regarding whether or not they communicate with companies and share information.

What they are doing is making most of their customers lives much harder, some of their customers lives a lot easier, whilst risking a lot of potential profit in the future.
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MaxShalamar
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« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2016, 04:33:15 PM »

TBH I'm thinking of opening a bank account just for arbing - it may take a couple of days to withdraw to a bank but it's a lot safer - ewallets are cutting their own throats with their increasing charges
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alimma
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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2016, 05:46:34 PM »

what about paypal
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MaxShalamar
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« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2016, 05:58:40 PM »

what about paypal

Still am ewallet

Betfair won't let me withdraw to paypal until I withdraw another £30k to Skrill
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my_username
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« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2016, 08:49:43 AM »

so what are the alternatives? debit cards?

can you buy them for your friends or do you need them to do it ?
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csampion
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« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2016, 01:40:28 PM »

This is so typical of the business world in general. Companies are so obsessed with increasing revenue and profits (the emphasis is on _increasing_) that if there is a financial year in which they only replicate the previous year's profit (however high it was already), then it's taken as a failure. The argument of business leaders for this is typically that "we have to act in the interest of our shareholders" and "meet our shareholders' expectations" blah blah. And when a company can no longer grow organically or through acquisitions (e.g. when they have reached a monopolistic position), all they can do is raise their fees. Which is acceptable to a degree, but Neteller's raise back in May was far too much, let alone this next one in October.

I promote Neteller myself on my small gambling-related website, so I earn money from them as an affiliate. This means that the affiliate receives a percentage of the fees that Neteller receives from merchants (sportsbooks, poker sites, etc.), so this excludes deposit and withdrawal fees. My earnings have declined sharply (by some 30-40%, although there are fluctuations) after the first fee raise in May, so the implication is that people are noticeably turning away from using Neteller. Still, it can be that Neteller makes more money in total due to the increase in deposit and withdrawal fees, but that's not at all certain, so it might be a lose-lose situation after all for all parties. Maybe the new fee raise scheduled for October is because they failed to make more money after the first raise. Or perhaps they just wanted to split the different elements of the raise into two batches anyway so that it wouldn't hurt so much at once, but still... My feeling is that this raise simply backfired on Neteller, as I'm not sure that raising deposit and withdrawal fees offsets the 30-40% decline in transfer activity, i.e. transfers to and from merchants. (Again, this 30-40% figure is only based on my experience and may be too small a sample.)
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luctens
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« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2016, 04:53:57 PM »

This is so typical of the business world in general. Companies are so obsessed with increasing revenue and profits (the emphasis is on _increasing_) that if there is a financial year in which they only replicate the previous year's profit (however high it was already), then it's taken as a failure. The argument of business leaders for this is typically that "we have to act in the interest of our shareholders" and "meet our shareholders' expectations" blah blah. And when a company can no longer grow organically or through acquisitions (e.g. when they have reached a monopolistic position), all they can do is raise their fees. Which is acceptable to a degree, but Neteller's raise back in May was far too much, let alone this next one in October.

I promote Neteller myself on my small gambling-related website, so I earn money from them as an affiliate. This means that the affiliate receives a percentage of the fees that Neteller receives from merchants (sportsbooks, poker sites, etc.), so this excludes deposit and withdrawal fees. My earnings have declined sharply (by some 30-40%, although there are fluctuations) after the first fee raise in May, so the implication is that people are noticeably turning away from using Neteller. Still, it can be that Neteller makes more money in total due to the increase in deposit and withdrawal fees, but that's not at all certain, so it might be a lose-lose situation after all for all parties. Maybe the new fee raise scheduled for October is because they failed to make more money after the first raise. Or perhaps they just wanted to split the different elements of the raise into two batches anyway so that it wouldn't hurt so much at once, but still... My feeling is that this raise simply backfired on Neteller, as I'm not sure that raising deposit and withdrawal fees offsets the 30-40% decline in transfer activity, i.e. transfers to and from merchants. (Again, this 30-40% figure is only based on my experience and may be too small a sample.)
So many companies nowadays are run with the view of what are we going to be like in 3 or 6 months time when we have to present our results to the city, instead of thinking how we can maintain loyal customers and prosperity for years and decades to come. Too much short termism in companies, especially in bookmakers, e-wallets and the like.
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MaxShalamar
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« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2016, 06:50:09 PM »

Quote
So many companies nowadays are run with the view of what are we going to be like in 3 or 6 months time when we have to present our results to the city, instead of thinking how we can maintain loyal customers and prosperity for years and decades to come. Too much short termism in companies, especially in bookmakers, e-wallets and the like.

There is no such thing as loyalty in business anymore - bonuses are based on new business and they expect you go go elsewhere just as they are trying to prise you away from other companies

That's why there are so many price comparison sites now -- you have to switch to get any value - I just switched my bank account from Barclays to Halifax and they gave me £100 to do it  - they are that desperate for NEW customers - it's all that matters - at the end of the day new business looks great in the yearly financial reports and that is what drives up the share price and the dividends to the shareholders
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luctens
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« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2016, 02:49:55 AM »

Quote
So many companies nowadays are run with the view of what are we going to be like in 3 or 6 months time when we have to present our results to the city, instead of thinking how we can maintain loyal customers and prosperity for years and decades to come. Too much short termism in companies, especially in bookmakers, e-wallets and the like.

There is no such thing as loyalty in business anymore - bonuses are based on new business and they expect you go go elsewhere just as they are trying to prise you away from other companies

That's why there are so many price comparison sites now -- you have to switch to get any value - I just switched my bank account from Barclays to Halifax and they gave me £100 to do it  - they are that desperate for NEW customers - it's all that matters - at the end of the day new business looks great in the yearly financial reports and that is what drives up the share price and the dividends to the shareholders
I'm not disputing that these practices are going in many businesses, but what I'm saying that it is no way to run a business solely based on the next 6 months and not really looking any further ahead, companies need to be thinking way more long term than that.

You say there is no loyalty in business. That is true in some sectors but in terms of e-wallets which we're discussing here, Skrill/Neteller reached a monopoly in the gambling e-wallet business and if they hadn't started with these increasing fees etc, then I would expect most gamblers would have used them for years and decades to come. Now with the recent actions they have taken, a lot of their customers who otherwise would probably have used them for a long time to come, they are now looking for alternatives. So in the e-wallet business, there are so few competitors that there is real customer loyalty, but only if you don't royally stab your customers in the back like Skrill/Neteller are doing.

So Skrill/Neteller will most probably see their profits rise in the next 6-12 months as a result of these fee rises as customers swallow them for now and assess the situation and look for alternatives. So in my view, their recent actions have upgraded their profit projections for this time next year, but their projections for this time in 5 years time when a lot of customers may have left or found a better alternative is severely harmed.

So in summary, in Skrill/Neteller's pursuit for short term profit increases, they have severely jeopardised the long term prosperity of their company, and that's just not a way to do business.
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MaxShalamar
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« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2016, 08:53:45 AM »

I think with the fees that both Neteller and Skrill charge (as well as their instability long term IMO) more people will migrate back to using bank debit cards to deposit and withdraw for free - obviously it may not work for other countries - I don't know if bookies or exchanges charge extra to deposit/withdraw outside of the UK

I was talking to my new bank last night and they said they would be happy to open a second account for me just for the purposes of online betting (and could even offer an overdraft on it LOL) so if you can take the 2-3 day delay in withdrawals then it really is the best option IMO

The only problem is depositing enough from the new account to be able to withdraw to it so taking one last hit from Skrill (in my case) instead of many transactions is necessary to get the cash out of there and into the back account but that is certainly better long term

You can probably guess I'm an old tight arse so I'm always looking for a way round paying out fees unnecessarily :P
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