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Which softs for start up? (page 3)

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Author Topic: Which softs for start up?  (Read 1657 times)
Alfa1234
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« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2016, 08:26:59 PM »

Do you have any evidence to back up what you are saying luctens or are you just guessing that withdrawing is likely to get you limited?
It's simply my opinion, but withdrawing is obviously not going to make your account less likely to be limited, it's likely to be frowned upon by the bookmaker and will result in you having more chance of your account being limited as opposed to if you hadn't made that withdrawal, simple common sense will tell you that.

It simply stands to reason that every time you come into contact with a bookmaker, that's just an additional opportunity for them to have a look over your account and possibly get you limited, so the less you come into contact with the bookmaker, the less chance there is of somebody looking over your account and limiting it.

And one of the big means of contact you have with the bookmaker is if you request a withdrawal, and of course if you make a withdrawal, that's money going out from the bookmaker to the customer, so the bookmaker is often going to want to look over your account to see if you need to be limited.

So it stands to reason that the less withdrawals you make, the less times somebody has a chance to look over your account because you've made a withdrawal, so the less chance your account has of being limited.

Like your previous posts about bookmakers, your views of how they operate are being clouded by your opinion of them. If you stop to think about what you are saying, I think you will find that restricting because of a withdrawal makes no sense at all for a bookmaker. Presenting personal opinions as facts is not the best way to go about things, especially when talking to a newbie who may take what you are saying as gospel  ;)

While I agree with the Luctens part  ;) ;), I disagree about the withdrawal part of it.  Bookmakers won't restrict you simply because you ask for a withdrawal as I don't think they care that much, but every contact and every request you make does increase the chance of them looking over that account and finding something they don't like thus it increases, indirectly, the chance of your account getting limited.
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dejected
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« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2016, 08:50:01 PM »

I think I disagree again Alfa. Restricting accounts is done by a two stage process, algorithms that run periodically and decide if your account is of interest. That creates a list of suspect accounts that are reviewed manually by traders. I believe they have to do it that way because of data protection laws. If an algorithm makes a decision about you, you can send a data protection request asking for details of how the algorithm works. They don't want the algorithms in the public domain, so all the algorithms do is put a flag on your account. The traders then make "the decision" whether to restrict you. Remember the email you get saying it is a traders decision, there is a reason for that!

If you think there is a trader that looks at your account after every transaction than they must have a lot of traders! Openbet broke the record for transactions last grand national day, 65 million transactions in a 24 hour period. The numbers are just too big for much to be done manually these days!

It could be that a  withdrawal request when there are flags on your account may cause an immediate review by a trader, instead of the end of the week / month / quarter however often they do it. So it seem like it was the withdrawal that caused it to be restricted.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 08:55:18 PM by dejected » Logged

MaxShalamar
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« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2016, 08:53:01 PM »

I'd say that hitting value lines is 99% the reason we get limited

A withdrawal at worst could flag you as being unprofitable to them just as big straight punters are and they are limited too

We've all been limited on heavy losing accounts purely because we've taken value and not because the bookie feels sorry for us and doesn't want us losing more :D
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« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2016, 08:58:50 PM »

I'd say that hitting value lines is 99% the reason we get limited

A withdrawal at worst could flag you as being unprofitable to them just as big straight punters are and they are limited too

We've all been limited on heavy losing accounts purely because we've taken value and not because the bookie feels sorry for us and doesn't want us losing more :D

Yes max. You can find out why you have been restricted by sending a data protection request asking for any trader notes on your account. For example a notoriously bad book closed my account because I had a 24% early price advantage and I was a suspect arber. In reality I had never arbed a bet I had taken with them.
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Alfa1234
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« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2016, 09:13:17 PM »

All I'm saying is, a withdrawal can sometimes be a trigger for them to have an extra look over an account and that way indirectly cause a limitation.  I know for a fact I've been limited by some bookies after a withdrawal while before the account was fine.  Coïncidence?  No, because it's happened too often.  Not saying that's how they all operate, but some definitely do.

Not all bookies work in the same way.
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dejected
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« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2016, 09:28:51 PM »

All I'm saying is, a withdrawal can sometimes be a trigger for them to have an extra look over an account and that way indirectly cause a limitation.  I know for a fact I've been limited by some bookies after a withdrawal while before the account was fine.  Coïncidence?  No, because it's happened too often.  Not saying that's how they all operate, but some definitely do.

Not all bookies work in the same way.

So that probably means that with some software, a withdrawal does trigger a review. There are a lot more bookies than software suppliers, so I would guess it would be similar for all the ones using the same software. Were they big withdrawals? It could be over a certain limit triggers a review immediately, rather than waiting for a periodic one.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 09:38:27 PM by dejected » Logged

Alfa1234
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« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2016, 10:00:46 PM »

Mid to high 4 figures.
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luctens
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« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2016, 10:03:15 PM »

I have not "made anything up" at all about what I've stated here about withdrawals. I've said it is my opinion and I've never represented it as fact or anything.

I've never said that a withdrawal will directly get you restricted or that it's only a withdrawal that will trigger your account for a review, it's simply one of the things that may flag up your account, and I've just said that the more withdrawals you do, the more chance of something getting flagged or triggered and the more chance of a trader looking over your account and therefore more chance of your account getting limited.

I've said many times previously that hitting value lines is the one thing that will get you limited more than anything, but just in case the algorithms hadn't caught up with you yet, you won't want to give the bookies an open goal opportunity to have a look over your account by you bringing attention to yourself by requesting a withdrawal, as that will increase the chances of a manual review being undertaken so that then contributes to the chances of your account getting limited.

There's things about bookmakers closing customers down that punters can't really control, but all punters can do is keep control of what they can control, and what we can control is the amount of times we bring up unwanted attention to our account by making withdrawals and making any other contact with the bookmaker, so it's our job to limit those times we initiate possible unwanted attention to our account by limiting any contact with the bookmaker down to zero if at all possible.

The very simple thing is, the more you stay under the radar at a bookmaker the longer you'll last there, and making a withdrawal brings unwanted attention to your account, so it's a very obvious point to make that it's in the bettor's interests to limit the number of withdrawals to as small an amount as possible, obviously if at all possible not making any withdrawals whatsoever for the whole time that you have an account at a bookmaker unrestricted.

And that goes for any other contact with the bookmaker as well in that if at all possible don't contact the bookmaker even about a trivial matter, as again it just brings unwanted attention to your account and somebody may end up having a scan over your account to see what your betting is like just because you've contacted them about some silly issue. So very simply, stay under the radar as much as possible by trying not to need to contact the bookmaker at any point whilst you still have an account unrestricted.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 10:13:12 PM by luctens » Logged

Alfa1234
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« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2016, 10:14:29 PM »

And that goes for any other contact with the bookmaker as well in that if at all possible don't contact the bookmaker even about a trivial matter, as again it just brings unwanted attention to your account and somebody may end up having a scan over your account to see what your betting is like just because you've contacted them about some silly issue. So very simply, stay under the radar as much as possible by trying not to need to contact the bookmaker at any point whilst you still have an account unrestricted.

Agreed, we can never know for certain what triggers a manual review...so if you have managed to stay under the radar at a certain bookie you should do everything possible to keep it that way.  Making an uneccesary withdrawal does not fall into that category.  Is that being paranoid?  Maybe, but why take the risk?
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barbero
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« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2016, 10:19:02 PM »

What about this 'data protection request' thing? dejected, did you try that already and had any useful results? Perhaps we can have something here?

Any info on that and how it is issued would be great, this is new
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« Reply #40 on: October 31, 2016, 12:11:50 AM »

What about this 'data protection request' thing? dejected, did you try that already and had any useful results? Perhaps we can have something here?

Any info on that and how it is issued would be great, this is new

A few beers later...

Yes I've done it a few of times. Depends where the bookies are based, but if they are in the EU then they have to respond to a data protection request. Just send an email to support. They can charge for it, but only to recover their costs. Around the €/£ 10 mark. Trader notes on your account will usually tell you the exact reason for the restrictions. But in most cases it will be the same, For me... early price advantage of X%., possible arber even though I don't arb!

I can dig out the email I send if anyone thinks it will be of use. Always interesting to know the real reason and it does piss them off :)
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barbero
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« Reply #41 on: October 31, 2016, 12:24:04 AM »

hehe that sounds great. I will try that myself next time I get limited, I'd like to see their reaction. If you can share that email, great so they don't mess around. Else don't worry, I guess it's pretty standard and I'll manage.

Thanks!
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Alfa1234
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« Reply #42 on: October 31, 2016, 09:02:41 AM »

Just looked it up, isn't that just for UK bookies?
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« Reply #43 on: October 31, 2016, 10:13:23 AM »

Just looked it up, isn't that just for UK bookies?

Depends where they are running their businesses from. Most of the UK bookies online business is not based in the UK for tax reasons. They are mainly in Gibraltar or Malta. Both of those jurisdictions have data protection regulations. I think everywhere in the EU should have it. Rest of the world, not so sure.
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MaxShalamar
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« Reply #44 on: October 31, 2016, 04:52:21 PM »

I opened up a Jetbull account about 3 weeks ago with £1000 (deposited from a debit card) - after 9 out of 11 winning bets and turning £1000 into £4000 I was limited today after purposely avoiding any withdrawals and trying to stay under the radar a bit

So although a withdrawal MAY be an excuse to look at your account it certainly is not a big reason and hitting value lines will get you every time

Still can get a £50 back/lay arb on a 2.8 shot in the Scottish 2nd league and another £50 on a CL U19 game so still a useful book - better than most limits
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