Premium charges

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gamblehappier
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gamblehappier

Premium charges
« on: January 05, 2018, 10:19:22 AM »

Can an exchange broker survive without premium charges ?If it happens,this will be a super gift for the new year..
But actually i think is not possible for a lot of reasons.If this is true why someone betting at betfair and not moving to brokers?
I think there is much discussion on this issue.
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Alfa1234
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Re: Premium charges
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2018, 11:36:37 AM »

Smarkets has been in business for over 7 years now without Premium Charges and their profit has been growing every year...so yes it's possible.

Why successful Betfair traders have not moved to Brokers to avoid the PC, is something I have wondered as well.  Probably those brokers would not welcome that action as Betfair would be closing their accounts.
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gamblehappier
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gamblehappier

Re: Premium charges
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2018, 11:55:22 AM »

Hi Alfa,you are right for smarkets,but i think its not actual the same with betfair..why?First they close accounts,secondly that some bets are not matched(personally never happened to me).Also i am not sure but they do not allow api(i do not know if you create your own bot).Take point that smarkets quit a lot of countries so only limited countries allowed to bet there(big disadvantage).

But in general they do not charge premium charges as you said.Actually now is the best alternative of betfair,also due to low commission

I also believe that brokers close betfair accounts to successful traders.
Very rare to see original betfair close player accounts.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 12:05:25 PM by gamblehappier » Logged

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TheJog87
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Re: Premium charges
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2018, 12:42:55 PM »

Because success in Betfair trading is all about automation. I don't think that any successful trader can do great thing, working manually from Betfair's website. Which is what a Betfair's clone offers.
Market advantage, speed of execution, removing emotions and human fallibility, gathering prices data, scalability,
easy monitoring and optimisation... and some more, and of course some disadvantages but the balance is inclined in favor of automation. The most valuable, the time.
The whole Betfair monopoly is based on the work of bots, and they protect their advantage on "their battlefield" in any way. Among other things, as the edge in terms of latency and of course it won't let you have...
Also there is the protection of succesful traders(or punters) with Premiun Charge
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Malteser
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Malteser

Re: Premium charges
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2018, 03:00:10 PM »

Liquidity is tiny at Smarkets compared to Betfair. Smarkets employ their own market-makers, I believe, to provide liquidity there.

It's not true that you need bots to win at Betfair. I'm a premium charge payer who does only manual trading. I'm sure others are doing the same.
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blackjack
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Re: Premium charges
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2018, 03:26:57 PM »

Because success in Betfair trading is all about automation. I don't think that any successful trader can do great thing, working manually from Betfair's website.

You are wrong. Many traders are working manually in specific markets. I mention horses, football, cricket and tennis as primary markets. Search a little in youtube and you ll find an unlimited number of videos from a number of people who are trading. To be 100% accurate I must say the number of traders is reduced compared with the number before 2010.

The whole Betfair monopoly is based on the work of bots, and they protect their advantage on "their battlefield" in any way. Among other things, as the edge in terms of latency and of course it won't let you have...

Betfair's biggest advantage is that they can see prices and volumes before anyone else. This access to information and the ability to exploit it makes betfair a winner by default.
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blackjack
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blackjack

Re: Premium charges
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2018, 03:32:40 PM »

Liquidity is tiny at Smarkets compared to Betfair. Smarkets employ their own market-makers, I believe, to provide liquidity there.

Smarkets is pushing own money in the exchange. Whenever you beat their own money they become aggressive. If you find a way to exploit them you better take their money slowly, small amounts each time so you stay under their radar.
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TheJog87
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TheJog87

Re: Premium charges
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2018, 12:20:48 AM »

Liquidity is tiny at Smarkets compared to Betfair. Smarkets employ their own market-makers, I believe, to provide liquidity there.

It's not true that you need bots to win at Betfair. I'm a premium charge payer who does only manual trading. I'm sure others are doing the same.

In horse racing? Then I wish you luck, I guess that it is necessary. After paying PC and the hard work done to worth investment.

Always will there are manual traders as well as gamblers in betting shops, and people who bet at prices below the sharp odds, and earning money, another thing is to have the probabilities in favor..
And keep searching videos in youtube about successful tradings and scalpings!

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gamblehappier
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gamblehappier

Re: Premium charges
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2018, 01:33:33 PM »

Because success in Betfair trading is all about automation. I don't think that any successful trader can do great thing, working manually from Betfair's website. Which is what a Betfair's clone offers.
Market advantage, speed of execution, removing emotions and human fallibility, gathering prices data, scalability,
easy monitoring and optimisation... and some more, and of course some disadvantages but the balance is inclined in favor of automation. The most valuable, the time.
The whole Betfair monopoly is based on the work of bots, and they protect their advantage on "their battlefield" in any way. Among other things, as the edge in terms of latency and of course it won't let you have...
Also there is the protection of succesful traders(or punters) with Premiun Charge

Exactly,this post says it all..speed,automation,emotions.Automation is the future of gambling.Trading can survive in the long run there.But i also believe that someone who knows well the market can gain some value without bots,in specific markets.Do not forget that there are a lof of gamblers.But again those who use bots will have more profits.Also people with big capitals,can gain more money.
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gamblehappier
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gamblehappier

Re: Premium charges
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2018, 01:40:25 PM »

Liquidity is tiny at Smarkets compared to Betfair. Smarkets employ their own market-makers, I believe, to provide liquidity there.

Smarkets is pushing own money in the exchange. Whenever you beat their own money they become aggressive. If you find a way to exploit them you better take their money slowly, small amounts each time so you stay under their radar.

I believe that there are a lot of moneymakers there compare to betfair which has a lot of gamblers.The same happen with matchbook which offer high liquidity.
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pythonic
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Re: Premium charges
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2018, 01:49:59 PM »

Liquidity is tiny at Smarkets compared to Betfair. Smarkets employ their own market-makers, I believe, to provide liquidity there.

Smarkets is pushing own money in the exchange. Whenever you beat their own money they become aggressive. If you find a way to exploit them you better take their money slowly, small amounts each time so you stay under their radar.
Very true. Smarkets makes most of its money from its own trading, not from commission. That's also the reason why they don't  release a public API. They don't want competition to their own market makers.
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TheJog87
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TheJog87

Re: Premium charges
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2018, 11:27:11 PM »

I've heard that API access will be available soon 
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pythonic
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pythonic

Re: Premium charges
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2018, 12:13:40 AM »

They have said that for ages.
Its not going to happen because that would mean everyone could compete with their in-house market makers.
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