Pinnacle problem. Confiscated 30k winnings

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Balcanbettor
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Pinnacle problem. Confiscated 30k winnings
« on: June 03, 2018, 02:44:21 AM »

 Before I start this i know there will be haters , I have had struggle with pinnacle for 8 months now, never did write on any forum about my problem. I opnned an account at pinnacle in October 2017. Deposited trough Skrill and I then immediatly send my full documentation. The first deposit was 1074 euro.. I lost those , the second deposit was 2 days later of 1950 euro. I will say again i did send everything my Id , passport, prove of my adress (a few letters, bank statement and even ali express post).

Dear Client,

Thank you for submitting your valid ID and/or proof of address. You will be notified if further documentation is required.

We appreciate your cooperation, and thank you for being a valued customer.

Kind regards,

Customer Service Department

Then in a week having no worries thinkinig that everythin is allright i had a good winning session and I made those 1950 into 33 000 euro in a week. ( saved the screenshots of all my bets ) , I asked for a withdrawal , then

Dear Pinnacle Client,

As part of global financial regulations, we are required to ensure that we have valid proof of identification and address from all players. Your account has been identified as having incorrect, outstanding or expired information.

We would like to request that you submit your proof of ID and proof of address.

And I did it again i send all the adress proving documents i have more than 5 docs. In return i recieved :

Dear Pinnacle Client,

As part of global financial regulations, we are required to ensure that we have valid proof of identification and address from all players. Your account has been identified as having incorrect, outstanding or expired information.

We would like to request that you submit your proof of ID and proof of address.

I asked them what is wrong with documents I asked for skype call, Phone call anything so i can help with the identification process I started to panic then, I knew that i should have checked for my adress verification first before gettin that much of winnings. I emailed them a few more times and the next email i got was :

Dear Client,
 

As previously informed, your account has been irrevocably closed.

You may request your withdrawal for the original deposits at your convenience.

The winnings will be confiscated.

Should you require additional information or wish to lodge a complaint, please feel free to contact Malta Gaming Authority by clicking here.

Best regards,

Ofcourse i couldnt just quit it and asked them again what is the matter what is the problem with the documents and what else can I send i used all the documents I have and I was using the same Docs for verification at other bookmakers , skrill , netteler etc... I got this

Dear Client,
 

Thank you for your email.

 
We apologize for the oversight.

You are not required to provide us with any documentation.

Please resubmit your withdrawal request at your earliest convenience.

This is to inform you that your account will be closed after the withdrawal is complete.

Thank you for your cooperation.

It seems like i had no chanse of doing anything with emailing them so i contacted MAlta Gaming Authority , I did wait for their response for maybe a month :

Dear ...
 
Further to the below case, please be informed that we have received information from the representative of Pinbet Malta Limited (pinbet.com) who have informed the MGA that the documents you have provided were not verified and not approved. Below you will find the Terms and Conditions they have used to close the account :
 
We may forfeit and/or confiscate funds available on your Account and/or refuse to honour a claim, in the event that, directly or indirectly: (i) the Terms have been violated; and/or (ii) other unauthorised activities have occurred in connection with a betting event and/or the operation of an Account (such as, but not limited to, breach of the law or other regulations, breach of a third party’s rights, fraud, and cheating).
 
We wish to remind you that when you created your account you agreed to adhere to the Terms and Conditions and therefore the MGA cannot offer you further support with this specific case seeing that you had agreed to such Terms. We will have to consider the complaint case closed.
 
Regards,
 
Kris

I will say this Although i am a new user here I am reading Arbusers forum for about 4 years now I am an expiriensed value bettor , arber and also tipster. The money won on the account was from arbing and covering bets for local players and are of great meaning.. ANY help here is welcomed , i've never had any problem with any bookmaker. If anyone doubts my bets i will say again i have all the screenshots they are 90% big tennis matches  and some MLB , hockey etc...
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dealer wins
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Re: Pinnacle problem. Confiscated 30k winnings
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2018, 08:41:34 AM »

All sounds very odd, they must suspect you of something, like courtsiding etc  Were you placing live bets or prematch?

Maybe post on the SBR forum as they have a Pinnacle contact.

As a Pinnacle user myself I hate reading things like this it makes me nervous.
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Balcanbettor
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Re: Pinnacle problem. Confiscated 30k winnings
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2018, 11:19:03 AM »

Well I was doing strictly live betting but if they suspect that i was at 5 different places in one day than there is nothing I can do. I got no explanation trust me i was really trying to solve this in a calm way but they refused to give any answers or cooperation.. It was pure luck nothing else and the bets were over under, handicaps etc.
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apoel81
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Re: Pinnacle problem. Confiscated 30k winnings
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2018, 12:21:50 PM »

Really strange behavior from Pinnacle.

If not mistaken, you sent them ID/utility bill(s).
After a week, Pinnacle came back asking for new documents.
Meanwhile you won 30k.
Your new documents sent were marked as ''incorrect, outstanding or expired information''
Last step was closure of account and return of deposits.

Pinnacle never provided you with a clear explanation why your documents were rejected? The only explanation they gave you was ''incorrect, outstanding or expired information''? I assume you checked your ID and isn't expired, Utility bills are not more than 3 months old and your account data are correct etc?
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Balcanbettor
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Re: Pinnacle problem. Confiscated 30k winnings
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2018, 02:59:15 PM »

Exactly , they did no explanation at all i copy pasted the emails as they were sending I dont know if i am alowed to put screenshots. I send them my ID a day after opening an account and it was aproved immediatly. Then i won the money and asked for a withdrawal it was declined they asked for adress verification , all my docs were not more than a week old.. I even went to several of my banks to take whatever they offer as adress verification document.  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  I am sending a screenshot of the  emails as they replied.

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vinciguerra
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Re: Pinnacle problem. Confiscated 30k winnings
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2018, 03:40:56 PM »

and you are sure you didn't forge any documents?

30K isn't that much money for Pinnacle. If there's something you're not telling us you might as well speak up now.
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Balcanbettor
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Re: Pinnacle problem. Confiscated 30k winnings
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2018, 04:25:34 PM »

I wouldn't start this thread if i had anything to hide or lie about , I also understand that this amount isnt that much but if they can confiscate it wihout giving me any explanation then why wouldnt they ?  It is up to me whatever im gonna do now , I copied here all the emails that they have sent me. I am looking if any1 had an issue like this and if there is a possible solution... I know it sounds too simple i am also amazed knowing that It is pinnacle and it is a huge bookmaker .. All the documents were right , bank statements, utility bill , screenshots of online accounts at local banks etc. Trust me Ive tried sending them everything and  i only got  :

We apologize for the oversight.

You are not required to provide us with any documentation.

Please resubmit your withdrawal request at your earliest convenience.

This is to inform you that your account will be closed after the withdrawal is complete.

Thank you for your cooperation.
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barbero
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Re: Pinnacle problem. Confiscated 30k winnings
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2018, 07:26:35 PM »

That's scary :-\
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arbusers
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Re: Pinnacle problem. Confiscated 30k winnings
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2018, 12:16:00 AM »

This topic is very interesting and I have several comments and questions.

Usually, it takes months or years before noticing a complaint about Pinnacle, but I must say that I m noticing a lot of complaints lately. My guess is that there must be something going on, on a managerial level.

Now let me welcome Balcanbettor and start commenting on his case.

Thank you for submitting your valid ID and/or proof of address. You will be notified if further documentation is required.

This is a tricky position by Pinnacle. First they declare that documents provided are valid. Then they state there is a possibility for further verification, meaning that the verification might not be completed. In this case, Balcanbettor should reply something like...''I m stopping all action here until you inform me if further documentation is needed'' or ''I m stopping all action until you confirm verification is completed''. These are tough to say.


As previously informed, your account has been irrevocably closed.

I would like to see the e-mail where they state that your account is irrevocably closed. I suppose there is much information at that specific e-mail that we don't see in your post so far.


we have received information from the representative of Pinbet Malta Limited (pinbet.com) who have informed the MGA that the documents you have provided were not verified and not approved.

If the documents you sent to them are real, then they have absolutely no right not to accept them. If the documents are legit, you have a case and you can beat them...but...lets take a look here also:


(ii) other unauthorised activities have occurred in connection with a betting event and/or the operation of an Account (such as, but not limited to, breach of the law or other regulations, breach of a third party’s rights, fraud, and cheating)

Now this is serious as they accuse you and they reveal that it is not only verification but other things as well that made them shut your account. If you say that all action is legit, then you have a case.
My mind goes directly to game fixing. If you can bring up correlated bets between pinnacle and an other bookmaker, then you have a case, as you clearly prove that you are arbing/trading and you are not doing anything against any law. Notice that in this case correlated bets must be in the same name.


The money won on the account was from arbing and covering bets for local players

This statement is not helping you, because it creates logic cohesion for ''third party rights'' as they cleverly say. Also, it is not helping you prove that you are arbing in the way that i described above. If you acted like an agent on behalf of other people that makes the situation even more complex.


Please resubmit your withdrawal request at your earliest convenience.
This is to inform you that your account will be closed after the withdrawal is complete.

If you are about to chase them, I suggest you don't resubmit a withdrawal and you keep the account open so you have access to data and action.


As I understand the amount of money enabled is significant and it would be a pity to let it go. If you feel that you have all cards on the table being legit, then you may want to chase them. In that case, you should start with a Maltese lawyer and a notary in your country who will ratify your docs and possibly the docs and affirmations of others. If it was 4-5k, i would say it doesn't worth it, simply because the lawyer would nibble that money.

Very messy situation.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 12:19:00 AM by Arbusers » Logged
barbero
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Re: Pinnacle problem. Confiscated 30k winnings
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2018, 01:16:30 AM »

Would it be all that bad if he proved arbing connected to an account under someone else's name?

He could very well be betting over the phone with a friend... or is that not legit?

Good luck Balcanbettor
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arbusers
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arbusers

Re: Pinnacle problem. Confiscated 30k winnings
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2018, 09:14:46 AM »

Would it be all that bad if he proved arbing connected to an account under someone else's name?

He could very well be betting over the phone with a friend... or is that not legit?


That is why I stressed:

and a notary in your country who will ratify your docs and possibly the docs and affirmations of others.


Also further scrutiny is required to determine if Pinbet's T&Cs allow players to have action instead of others. That is another reason why the account should remain open.
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vinciguerra
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Re: Pinnacle problem. Confiscated 30k winnings
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2018, 09:29:34 AM »

if you really honestly have nothing to hide, seek out all of the other betting forums, post your story and be pro-active in keeping threads alive and on top of the board.  virtually everybody uses pinnacle; if they confiscate without a valid reason, everybody will be worried and this will become a big story pinnacle will need to address. you can always take the legal route (as arbusers suggested), but if i were you i'd really try to make this as big of a story as possible.

again, usually with these kinds of complaints it's some 3rd rate book nobody uses and nobody cares about.  everybody uses pinnacle, so everyone will be reading, use that to your advantage here.
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Balcanbettor
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Re: Pinnacle problem. Confiscated 30k winnings
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2018, 11:02:26 AM »

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] Thank you for your responce everyone. I will try to reply everyone ... FIrstly About the part where Arbusers said i should reply something like Im stopping all action.. YES I COMPLETELY AGREE if it is some junk bookmaker i would definitly do that and since my ID was accepted i didn't  even came on my mind that there would be any problem because i know my betting style I know that i am not doing anything wrong and i was 100% sure there will be no problems because  ill say again it is pinnacle.

- I wasnt previously informed , there is no such email  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  i will atach a screenshot of how were the emails send to me.  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

- It is real documents I can not send them here but i would even do that if it is needed

- My action as i will show in a few screenshots again would be welcomed by absolutely any bookie [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
I can not show how was the arb done because i don't even remember on which site it was done if it was arb.. Mostly it was straight bets ...

- No matter what i did it was my desicion if i did the bets for someone else i am not trying to use that as a way to persue them give my money back it is just statement that again it was not an action on ''fixed games'' or even profesionals but normal gambling bets.

- UNFORTUNETLY i did withdraw what they offereed me i was afraid they would be in a hurry to close the account as soon as possible so i dont have any proves of anything. And yes now i am not able to enter the account because it is shown as it doesnt exist

VInciguerra , I was thinking of that also but i really haven't been in a situation like this , i supose i am to afraid to go against such a big shot like pinn but again i am starting to lose faith that i could ever take that money back so i will probably do that.

AGAIN THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR REPLYS GUYS I AM NOT TRYING TO PROMOTE NEGATIVE COMMENTS AGAINST PINNACLE BUT TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IF THEY MISSUNDERSTOOD SOMETHING ABOUT MY CASE , BUT AGAIN IT IS REAALLY STRANGE HOW THEY HAVE MADE THE DESICION IN DAYS WITHOUT AND THEY HOLDING SOME JOKER AGAINST ME THAT I AM NOT AWARE OFF AND THEY WOULDNT SAY WHAT THAT IS UNTILL I GO ON COURT AGAINST THEM...DUNNO JUST GUESSING

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« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 11:05:37 AM by Balcanbettor » Logged
Balcanbettor
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Balcanbettor

Re: Pinnacle problem. Confiscated 30k winnings
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2018, 11:14:46 AM »

Some more sc of the bets...
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arbusers
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Re: Pinnacle problem. Confiscated 30k winnings
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2018, 11:39:25 AM »

@Balcanbettor

1. Please DONT post here any ID or utility bill you have sent to Pinnacle. This is not the right place.
2. Please do me a favour. Could you provide a list, not screenshots of all bets that you had with them? Should be in that format or anyone handy for you:
a. Chelsea - Liverpool Draw odds 3.30 risking 500 euros, won.
b. Tottenham - ManCity Home odds 2.80 risking 300 euros lost.
etc
Then we might see if there is any game blacklisted for match fixing.
3. I believe it really worths it taking a look at the correlated bets and see what you can recover from other bookmakers in the form of screenshots again. At least for a number of them.

You say that you indeed accepted bets from 3rd parties, maybe it would be wiser from your side not to mention that to Pinnacle or anyone else, but since you decided to go that way...why dont you take a look at their T&Cs to see where this thing is forbidden?

There are a lot of interpretations on this phrase:
''breach of the law or other regulations, breach of a third party’s rights, fraud, and cheating''. Maybe it worths seeing how a Maltese court would interpret this phrase.
You could at least ask a Maltese lawyer about that.

As a side note, you are doing correct not to escalate publicity at this point and your overall statements are not provoking, nor creating a negative atmosphere for you. This escalation might be needed at a later stage.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 11:46:51 AM by Arbusers » Logged
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