BET-IBC SCAM EXPOSED - With proofs (page 3)

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dealer wins
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dealer wins

Re: BET-IBC SCAM EXPOSED - With proofs
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2018, 10:33:29 AM »

Im on the fence with this one.  Ive seen many many times bots go wrong, like suddenly backing at 1.1 in a market that should be 3.0 etc.  Im not usually fast enough to grab the error but I have a couple of times and I wouldnt expect betfair to void, as its against their rules.   Ive also sent in a few 1.01 back for sizeable amounts in error and they obviously instantly lose me the lot, and of course I wouldnt expect those to be voided either.

If the OP genuinely laid at those odds because someone, or a trader messed up, then those bets should be paid in full.

Maybe this is a case for SBR to do a full review on, and see who is telling the truth and who is lying, because either the OP or the agent is.

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DPG
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Re: BET-IBC SCAM EXPOSED - With proofs
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2018, 12:00:37 PM »

1) u shouldnt use betfair cos if their own bot fucks up they dont pay like in the volver de vette horse case.
2) u shouldnt use agents cos if they r illegitimate or dont pay u theres not much u can do.
3) u shouldnt bet trade or gamble cos the industry is as shady as it gets.
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dealer wins
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Re: BET-IBC SCAM EXPOSED - With proofs
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2018, 01:55:11 PM »

1) u shouldnt use betfair cos if their own bot fucks up they dont pay like in the volver de vette horse case.
2) u shouldnt use agents cos if they r illegitimate or dont pay u theres not much u can do.
3) u shouldnt bet trade or gamble cos the industry is as shady as it gets.

1) they do pay in 99.99999% of cases
2) use ones recommended on Arbusers and you should be fine
3) Its an occupational hazard, easily avoided if you stick to reputable books and agents
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barbero
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Re: BET-IBC SCAM EXPOSED - With proofs
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2018, 02:22:52 PM »

bet IBC haven't provided any proof of their accusations towards the player, and as long as they don't, I'm clearly with Tennistrader. He has every right to be paid in full, unless we are missing any additional information.

so, bet IBC?
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balls of steele
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balls of steele

Re: BET-IBC SCAM EXPOSED - With proofs
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2018, 04:52:00 PM »

Maybe this is a case for SBR to do a full review on, and see who is telling the truth and who is lying, because either the OP or the agent is.

You forget the 3rd party of this story called Betfair.
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betmanforever
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Re: BET-IBC SCAM EXPOSED - With proofs
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2018, 02:16:14 AM »

From what I read, the ball is definetely in Bet-Ibc's court now.

So much at stake (credibility and reputation ..) if I was in their shoes I'd provide details/evidence here for everyone to see.

I'm not taking side here but why Bet-ibc not showed the monatery amounts in their reply ? ... So that we wouldn't laugh at 337€ against the 80k€ on the other side of bet?

Lay Han N. @ 1,16 on 19/11/2017 at 21:49:18
Lay Han N. @ 1,18 on 19/11/2017 at 21:49:40
Lay Han N. @ 1,19 on 19/11/2017 at 21:49:45

There are players who'd go to low or no liqudity markets to pass funds, and there probably always be.

But they can be detected by Betfair immediately or afterwards especially if there's a compaint.

All Bet-ibc has to do is to provide the correspondence here to the accused's face.

There can be a lot Betfair would provide, surely.

Saying we won't comment any further is also alarming,

Why would they decide that? especially when there is an accusation and someone saying he is victimized.

The more I think about it the more I lean towards the player.

I won't even believe Betfair is or was ever informed in this case until I see the evidences provided by the agent (emails, skype chat, spreadsheet etc etc. sensitive info can/should be covered to share here, no problem)

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Alfa1234
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Re: BET-IBC SCAM EXPOSED - With proofs
« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2018, 10:15:46 AM »

I also think BET IBC has to show some proof because I'm with the player here.  The fact they are still actively pushing their Bet365-account selling business on the side never sat well with me either.  No agent should be in the business of selling accounts.
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balls of steele
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Re: BET-IBC SCAM EXPOSED - With proofs
« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2018, 11:54:42 AM »

It is Christmas time and I was hoping not to post but seeing all this naive people gathered in just 1 thread I changed my mind.
There are unanswered questions.

Just the facts ma'am.

1st. Tennistrader should answer why did he continue using Bet-IBC for 8 months after losing the money. What is the answer to this question that was raised by arbusers? I can't believe that someone would continue using an agent after losing 64k.

2nd. The whole incident is triggered by Betfair and not BET-IBC. Isn't it clear?

3rd. To complete the series of events and if we are talking about Tennis trading we need to know if we are talking about court-siding or not.

4th. Let's suppose that Tennistrader indeed found a crazy bot and he exploited it. If this is the case betfair should pay. Period. It is not betfair's nor BET-IBC business if someone exploits a bot. So if the money is confiscated it is betair's business. So here is the question...who is the owner of the bot? Common logic says it is Betfair itself. Agents are not known for using bots. Just thinking out loud.

5th. Both BET-IBC and Tennistrader are doing a mistake to accuse each other for scam, credit card fraud etc etc.

6th. And most important. I disregard Tennistrader's opinion on BET-IBC. You must do your due diligence BEFORE you deposit to a bookmaker. Not AFTER.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2018, 12:03:54 PM by balls of steele » Logged
vinciguerra
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Re: BET-IBC SCAM EXPOSED - With proofs
« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2018, 12:19:55 PM »

1st. Tennistrader should answer why did he continue using Bet-IBC for 8 months after losing the money. What is the answer to this question that was raised by arbusers? I can't believe that someone would continue using an agent after losing 64k.

why is this relevant to the case?

2nd. The whole incident is triggered by Betfair and not BET-IBC. Isn't it clear?

no it isn't. the bet wasn't voided in the account statement (which would have happened if betfair intervened), but money was transfered out. there could be a logical explanation for this, but it looks very shady without one,

3rd. To complete the series of events and if we are talking about Tennis trading we need to know if we are talking about court-siding or not.

it's not relevant.  and besides, he clearly wasn't. nowhere in the match were the odds tennistrader took correct odds, tennistrader didn't have some unfair advantage to know the "correct" odds, but the odds offered by the other side were always incorrect odds. courtsiding is not the point at all.

4th. Let's suppose that Tennistrader indeed found a crazy bot and he exploited it. If this is the case betfair should pay. Period. It is not betfair's nor BET-IBC business if someone exploits a bot. So if the money is confiscated it is betair's business. So here is the question...who is the owner of the bot? Common logic says it is Betfair itself. Agents are not known for using bots. Just thinking out loud.

nobody is saying betibc owned the bot.  and without any facts betfair might be right to void.  i remember betdaq voiding bets, because of an API error which reversed bets on the website, which basically meant bots and normal users were not betting what they appeared to be betting; shitty situation, but i understand the void. without context we have no idea what happened here.   and if betfair voids without giving an explanation, the least you can expect of betibc is to protect the player's interests instead of turning 180 degrees and accuse the player of money-laundering.


6th. And most important. I disregard Tennistrader's opinion on BET-IBC. You must do your due diligence BEFORE you deposit to a bookmaker. Not AFTER.

it might be too late for tennistrader. but there are potential customers of betibc who read this thread while doing the due diligence you talk about, and can use this to decide whether they really want to play there.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2018, 12:21:45 PM by vinciguerra » Logged
betmanforever
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Re: BET-IBC SCAM EXPOSED - With proofs
« Reply #39 on: December 29, 2018, 02:17:40 PM »

I agree with vinciguerra..

I remember an incident around 10 years ago, where a bot was trading even though there wasn't sufficient funds in it's account.

So all other bots took bets this bot was offering. As a result there was at least quarter of a million GBP owed to those bots.

Betfair paid them all without a blink of an eye. I have  some other examples if there's any need. (Though, Betfair is not always perfect I realize that)

It can't be courtside trade case neither (It is prevented by the "authorities" there, but that's another story).

They can't void your bet with that suspicion only.

When Betfair voids a bet or it's lapt you can see those bet in statement.

Why the player waited 8 months, you ask ? He said he kept asking the operator and was kept on hold for a "decision by Betfair" and his initial balance was still available so he wasn't alarmed.

There are players that rattle the cage for only 10 € we all know those types,  but some playerss are more laid back.

Simplest solution is that, Bet-ibc proves the funds were taken by Betfair.

Until I see that proof I will take tennistrader's side of the story.

Notice what Bet-ibc says, read again carefully
   
" So what happened here is the complainer „Tennistrader“ transfered money between one or more accounts, offering very low odds in a very small market where nobody else at that time was betting.

What is only surprising for us, BET-IBC, is that someone like the complainer „Tennistrader“, who obviously has so much experience in this „business“, seriously expected that Betfair won´t find out such scam.

After being detected by Betfair, the money was refunded by Betfair to the account holder where the money should have been transfered from. So no damage for the complainer „Tennistrader“ occured.

Are you telling me that, Betfair finds out that someone passing of funds between two accounts, not notifying the culprits and returning the funds back to that account? Which means the funds are now sitting in the other account tennistrader is controlling ? ? ?

Also, Bet-ibc says, quote " So no damage for the complainer „Tennistrader“ occured."      Hilarious replies by Bet-ibc from every angle.

WOW how nice, let's all go to park to play kids  :)

 I consider it damage if I don't get my winnings  (which I have my own case with 21bet scammers)

I say good luck to tennistrader trying to recover the money

( Unless Bet-ibc proves it otherwise without a trace of a doubt )


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Wolfie
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Re: BET-IBC SCAM EXPOSED - With proofs
« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2018, 03:42:44 PM »

Bet-ibc has the obligation to show Tennistrader its correspondence with betfair, so he could see in person what happened with his case. You can't take someones word for granted if 64K are in play. Otherwise if they don't want to expose their correspondence, they should pay Tennistrader fully.
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arbusers
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Re: BET-IBC SCAM EXPOSED - With proofs
« Reply #41 on: December 29, 2018, 04:48:40 PM »

BET-IBC contacted us brining to our attention an issue of Data protection.
In Tennistrader’s post, there was a screenshot of a Skrill account transaction history enabling a 3rd person. We are not in position to confirm this person’s will to have his name exposed. Even if this person contacts us, we do not have the means and the authority to confirm his/her ID. Therefore the above mentioned post was modified and the screenshot was deleted by us.
This action is not altering the meaning and the tenor of what is mentioned by the poster (Tennistrader).
Thank you.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2018, 04:55:32 PM by Arbusers » Logged
Tennistrader
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Re: BET-IBC SCAM EXPOSED - With proofs
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2018, 11:22:04 AM »

@balls of steele - Asking questions already answered, you should have continued to enjoy Christmas, thanks anyway.

@vinciguerra and @betmanforever Thank you for answering for me. That's why I decided to open this topic on this forum, because I found intelligent people here.


Guys, don’t you think it’s too late for any kind of proof from bet-ibc?

I gave then one last chance to do it.

December 24:

Me:

“Hello,
What is your intention going public and calling me scammer and thief without any proof? Are you crazy?! I’m not a 20year Indian scammer!
We both know that’s not true and I don’t understand why you did it when you know that I have proofs to expose you, are you retarded?

I can see some happiness from you because my complaints didn’t give me reason and the case is closed but you know what? I only submitted last week and the process/investigations is on-going.
I give you one last change, you just need to give me one betfair account with my 64k eur without any withdraw/deposits restrictions and I lift-off the complaints, or if you prefer you can also transfer to my skrill.
You only have a couple hours to do as I’m tired of this case!
Is your decision!”

bet-ibc:

“It was you going public saying„…bet-ibc moved 64K from my acc“, knowing 100% it´s not true and well visible on your account statement.
That was an accusation without any ground against BET-IBC.”

Me:

“It’s also Betfair name included, you can read clearly that my suspicions was against betfair and not you, but with this stupid move from your side, now I don’t know who’s fault and scamming me!
How can you say that I’m 100% sure? No I’m not, the withdraw was transf back from your master to mine than transf to another one.
Show me the proof that was Betfair suspending my account and transferring the funds and not you.
If wasn't you, you can send my last email to betfair and handle with them because my position keeps!”

bet-ibc:

“You lay 93k in a dead market @ 1,06 – 1,07 when the odds were totally unrealistic and after you blame on BET-IBC and mention us„moving 64k from your account“ (even if also „Betfair“ name included).
You should change your behaviour and the titles of your accusations.”

Me:

“Yes I layed so what? It’s not my fault that someone else or bots matched my stakes at that odds, is it? Was not a dead market and you also know that I didn’t just made 6 trades as you posted manipulating the users opinion against me.

My behavior? And yours?

What are you doing now? Saving some time? Trying to manipulate? Your doing this with the wrong person, I’m waiting the proofs or my new betfair account with 64k eur balance. Don’t waste my time please.”

bet-ibc: No reply.


BET-IBC contacted us brining to our attention an issue of Data protection.
In Tennistrader’s post, there was a screenshot of a Skrill account transaction history enabling a 3rd person. We are not in position to confirm this person’s will to have his name exposed. Even if this person contacts us, we do not have the means and the authority to confirm his/her ID. Therefore the above mentioned post was modified and the screenshot was deleted by us.
This action is not altering the meaning and the tenor of what is mentioned by the poster (Tennistrader).
Thank you.

Data protection??? That name is bet-ibc skrill account – eur@bet-ibc.com

Are they doing “bussiness” using 3rd persons accounts? That’s not a skrill bussiness account?

I will confirm this with skrill.

@Arbusers Yeah, this don’t change anything. Thanks
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jagas
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Re: BET-IBC SCAM EXPOSED - With proofs
« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2018, 03:22:57 PM »

you should be boarding a flight to thier office now, if i were you
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Re: BET-IBC SCAM EXPOSED - With proofs
« Reply #44 on: December 31, 2018, 01:21:12 PM »

Hello Forum Community!

In this post, we will try to clarify a few things.

A) „BET-IBC has to prove…“
There would be 2 ways to „prove“:
1) we can give you access to our bank account and show everyone who asks for what money we have or have not received, which is completely out of the question
2) we give everyone access to our email and ticket system that contain the conversations we have with bookies, payment providers and clients daily, which is equally not possible

Therefore, any client, can either TRUST a broker that’s out on the market for over 10 years OR NOT. In the latter case, there are other brokers whom they might trust more.
What we can show is what the client sees on his account. Everyone who has ever had a Betfair account via an agent can ascertain this as a fact, by checking his account.

This is how a normal account sheet through an agent looks like: https://puu.sh/CpELd/ce76791c0f.jpg
This is the account sheet of the plaintiff Tennistrader: https://puu.sh/CpEMW/93ba8e03b0.jpg

Also you can see, that at one point the balance was -41.852,81 EUR. Betfair would not allow an agent to bring a member account in minus by transfering money.
Furthermore, an agent cannot withdraw money at all from an account of a Betfair member. It has to be done by the member itself – Betfair protects its clients here pretty well.
This is also something that can be certified by anyone who has ever had a Betfair account via an agent.

It is clear that all of the money was not taken by BET-IBC but by Betfair.

2)   BET-IBC is a broker/agent, Betfair is a bookie/exchange.
BET-IBC is a mediator between those who want a betting account and a Bookmaker that wants to have clients. BET-IBC (or any broker/agent for that matter) does not hold any power over any Bookmaker, let alone a name as big as Betfair. It is not in our purview to tell a Bookie „you have to pay“ and they do it.

In any case, we make more profit if a client wins at an exchange.
Client wins > client pays commission > we get a share from the exchange commission paid by the clients we refer.
That is how the system works.

3) Back to Tennistrader – who is right, him or Betfair?
We don´t know and it is not our job to arbitrate.
We don´t know and we cannot have any knowledge of what Betfair knows and sees.

However, there are some things that we can be 100% sure of:
-   Plaintiff  Tennistrader layed odds which were totally unrealistic (around 93.000 EUR @ 1,06 – 1,07) on a player who lost 6-0, 6-4.
-   Han was seeded as No. 1 and won the 1st set 6-0.
-   Lutzeier got a Wildcard for the Qualification – so AT WHAT POINT was the odd 1,06 for Lutzeier to win???
Please see the draw here: https://puu.sh/CpBUC/b8903fcfa3.png and here https://www.wtatennis.com/tournament/2017-HONOLULU#draws

Based on all of the above, something here is quite fishy and from here onwards, just check Betfair´s terms and conditions:
http://www.betfair.com/aboutUs/Terms.and.Conditions/#terms-betting-general
or
http://www.betfair.com/aboutUs/Rules.and.Regulations/

There are various points listed on the reasons why Betfair will and has to cancel such bets. Either it was a technical error, or an obvious odds mistake, or a misleading offer (trap offer = someone offers a lay of 1,11 when the odd should be 11,1 and hopes that someone will be in a rush or not paying attention to back this unrealistic odd) or a way to use a small market to transfer money between accounts.
Betfair informed us that „…the account has been involved in a clear fund passing case…“ and that this was the reason behind their actions.
Everyone who knows Betfair also knows that they do not freeze money for fun. They do it based on very clear evidence, most of the time they don´t share such evidence with clients (or agents), in order to avoid making scammers smarter.
All of the aforementioned are covered in their T&C various times and has absolutely nothing to do with BET-IBC or any other broker out there.

4) Regarding „stolen credit cards“
Everything that was stated in our previous message are hard facts. People who use stolen credit cards do it for years and it is a very well-known tactic among thieves to launder the loot. However, it was never mentioned that Tennistrader belongs to this category.
Let us explain how this works.
Someone steals credit card data and uses it to deposit on Betfair.com.
Afterwards, they look for a very small market like Han N. - Lutzeier L. (Challenger Women Honolulu).
Now, the thief uses another Betfair (or a Betfair whitelabel) account to place an offer that is totally unrealistic for anyone to place a bet, unless they want to transfer money from one account to another. Let´s say a prematch lay Lutzeier (a Wildcard holder) to win against Han (No. 1 seed) at 1,06. No normal person would ever back this unless they wanted to transfer funds from one account to another.
Now, the thief with the stolen credit card backs Lutzeier to win at 1,06 through the Betfair account he used the stolen credit card details to deposit (hoping to lose, since the thief cannot withdraw back to the stolen credit card).
Afterwards logging back to the account they used to place such a ridiculous lay of 1,06 in favor of Lutzeier, the person in question gets themselves out of the match by just backing and laying later on normal odds (that´s why we did not list all other bets on this match, as it is normal to lay yourself out of a game and make sure profit/transfer money).
If everything goes well, the money from the account of the stolen credit card gets transferred to another account from where they can be withdrawn and be “clean” (laundered).
This is by the way the reason why 9wickets.com (a Betfair Whitelable) mentions „low liquidity“ and you cannot bet on these small markets there – you can check that for yourself on their website.

Repeating what was stated above, we never said that the plaintiff Tennistrader stole someone´s card. However, the fact is that under no circumstances anyone would bet 93.000 Eur on Lutzeier at 1,06 or 1,07.
These are some of the common situations that cause Betting Exchanges to void bets:
- trap offers (explained above)
- late suspensions (someone on the field knowingly or unknowingly suspends the game late and someone profits, while someone else suffers)
- obvious transfers between accounts
- bets on matches which are investigated for match fixing by Betfair or any other authority

Every forum is full of complaints by people that "some Bookie stole their money". In fact, there are certain people who do not act according to the terms and conditions and the betting ethics. Often, they do succeed and nobody sees it, however, sometimes they fail and the bookies detect it and act accordingly. All that causes at the end hard life for all of us - bookies ask more and more KYC, limits go down and down.

The plaintiff Tennistrader was informed about each step taken and reply received by Betfair and it is not our fault or problem, that he does not like those replies. He may have thought that we would insult and blackmail Betfair the same way he did with BET-IBC, but BET-IBC will never go at such low levels.
For some time after that game, the plaintiff Tennistrader acted more or less normally and even remained our client until 27.09.2018 (i.e. 10 months after that game), when he withdrew his money from his Matchbook account.
Since then, he comes with rude behavior (…"mother fucker, scammer, assholes, etc"…) and keeps blackmailing. We have ceased all contacts with him and will not dignify his rude behavior any further.

We wish you a successful year 2019 and kind regards,
BET-IBC
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