Are Betfair, Smarkets, Matchbook and clones still safe to use?

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balls of steele
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balls of steele

Are Betfair, Smarkets, Matchbook and clones still safe to use?
« on: September 29, 2019, 09:13:57 AM »

Some players/members suggest that exchanges might not be in their best shape. Do you think it is still safe to use them?
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PunterLog
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Re: Are Betfair, Smarkets, Matchbook and clones still safe to use?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2019, 09:27:25 AM »

Personally, i don't think they are safe at least with larger sums of money.

I'd trust Betfair to pay me a six figure sum without blinking an eye. I wouldn't say that with Orbitx, 9wickets or Mountbet. These clones can accuse the customers of false charges and then not pay them. I've been seeing too many complaints regarding these clones freezing accounts and then when the player posts about the issue on forums, somehow the account gets cleared. Extremely shady.

I only use Orbitx now from time to time with extremely small amounts of money as i don't trust them. How i wish Betfair was operational in my country. Despite all their faults, at least they payout all the time unless you do something illegal.
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DPG
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Re: Are Betfair, Smarkets, Matchbook and clones still safe to use?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2019, 09:42:57 AM »

I agree with punterlog. Also like to add the following.

Betfair is safe to use as it is the original p2p exchange and player funds are ringfenced. Betfair white labels could struggle like 21bet exchange which is no more. There was a report on this forum of unfair funds confiscation from betfair white label, fair exchange. I would just be sensible. i.e Not keep huge balances in them and keep an eye out for reports of any slow pay. Smarkets made a loss of £9m in 2018 which is huge for a small exchange. They will be alright for the short term but if they continue to offer easy odds to pick off and do not adapt they could end up in trouble.

Matchbook have gone down the drain. They only allow a player to win $20,000 on an account before putting them on 60% commission. I guess they must have been operating at a loss aswell to have done that.

What I don't understand is why no one tries to be a true competitor to betfair and become a proper p2p exchange instead of seeding it with their own money. The industry is crying out for a properly run exchange.
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pythonic
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Re: Are Betfair, Smarkets, Matchbook and clones still safe to use?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2019, 01:10:32 PM »

I agree with the previous statements.
Betfair should be save if you don't do shady stuff. I always have a 5 figure sum there and never had any problems. They have ringfenced accounts, are most probably very profitable and are part of one of the largest bookies.
Interesting that smarkets wrote such a big loss this year. I would guess that this is due to their aggressive expansion and could (should) be reversed this year but still it shows how hard it is currently for them to gain significant further market share.
Both commission and trading revenue approximately half of the year before.

I think that the exchange that comes closest to betfair as a 'true p2p exchange' is betdaq, but they always had the problem that they don't differ enough from BF and liquidity follows liquidity, so there is a tendency for one exchange to attract the vast majority of volume.
In the past few years there was a trend for betfair to lose Market share to the smaller players, but doubt that this will continue when smarkets expansion was so expensive and matchbook seems pretty desperate with their various measures to keep the smart money out of their system.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 01:15:28 PM by pythonic » Logged
dealer wins
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Re: Are Betfair, Smarkets, Matchbook and clones still safe to use?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2019, 02:39:55 PM »

Financially Betfair is the most safe by far, listed on the stock exchange in the FT100, also owns paddypower.  But if you run into an issue with them it can be extremely painful.  If they suspect you of foul play expect your account to be frozen, and if they suspect you of collusion or funds passing they could even seize your balance from threads read on SBR over the years.

As for Matchbook and Betdaq I would say they are pretty safe financially, but again get caught doing shady stuff and expect the same sort of treatment. 

As for Smarkets I have been wary of them since I have read too many bad things.  Voiding perfectly good trades leaving people £1000s out of pocket, website issues again causing losses, and I have read somewhere recently that they have made a loss this year.  I wouldnt feel safe using them at all.

As for "premium charges", they all (not sure about Betdaq) have some sort of nasty scheme for anyone with the audacity to win on their exchange, and I believe this to be highly unfair and unethical, but not a lot we can do about it, and most arbers shouldnt get hit with it as bets tend to lose on the exchange over time.
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campeones
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Re: Are Betfair, Smarkets, Matchbook and clones still safe to use?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2019, 06:03:38 PM »

Betfair money should be considered as safe. They have a big bookmaker (PaddyPower) backing them financially. As already said, it is wise not to mess with them as they are incredibly slow in replying and their Customer Service is incompetent.
Smarkets should be avoided, if possible. Their model is not good. Flooding their exchange with their own money is like feeding sharks with naked hands. You never know when someone bites you. In reality, some people did bite Smarkets and the reaction wasn't good: https://arbusers.com/index.php?topic=3912.0
Matchbook, I m completely covered with what is said so far.
Clones, be extra careful here because you have 2 more risk layers. First is the layer of the clone, second is the layer of the agent. Normally, you wouldn't have any problem with them but seems, like the case of 21Bet, that fund passers are active here. It also seems that those clones offering artificial liquidity will be the first to bite the dust because they are the first to be targeted by fund passers and other black boys of the industry. Read a recent incident here: https://arbusers.com/index.php?topic=6673.0
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 07:06:17 PM by campeones » Logged
arbusers
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Re: Are Betfair, Smarkets, Matchbook and clones still safe to use?
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2019, 08:19:38 AM »

I am not sure if there is any Betfair clone still pumping artificial liquidity. If there is any left, it should be under tremendous risk.
Betfair itself is very strict with fund passing and this is the right thing to do, as I believe there is a lot of bad will behind any fund passing operation.
At the same time, we have seen lately many agents accusing successful smart bettors of fund passing and in the end, these players got their money back. Even though I condemn fund passing, I worry this might become a witch hunt game against smart bettors. Something like the accusations of fraud that some soft bookmakers are launching when dragged to court by smart bettors.
https://arbusers.com/index.php?topic=6715.msg72244#msg72244
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PunterLog
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Re: Are Betfair, Smarkets, Matchbook and clones still safe to use?
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2019, 12:25:38 PM »

I am not sure if there is any Betfair clone still pumping artificial liquidity. If there is any left, it should be under tremendous risk.

The clones that have the same liquidity as on Betfair, are they taking the risk of the customers bet or is the bet placed into Betfair via the clone thereby the end-risk being taken by Betfair?

Suppose a market has 200,000$ matched on betfair and orbitx. If i place a bet on orbit, will orbit pass over the risk to betfair or am i placing the bet against orbit?
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Wolfie
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Re: Are Betfair, Smarkets, Matchbook and clones still safe to use?
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2019, 01:31:48 PM »

will orbit pass over the risk to betfair or am i placing the bet against orbit?

This we dont know for sure and thats the problem.
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pythonic
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Re: Are Betfair, Smarkets, Matchbook and clones still safe to use?
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2019, 05:15:19 PM »

Suppose a market has 200,000$ matched on betfair and orbitx. If i place a bet on orbit, will orbit pass over the risk to betfair or am i placing the bet against orbit?

It should be easy to try this out if you can monitor the market impact on betfair while placing your bets at orbit. It might be different for different accounts, but still: Just place a bet and see how the liquidity available at betfair changes.
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kwazulunatal
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Re: Are Betfair, Smarkets, Matchbook and clones still safe to use?
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2019, 03:22:13 PM »

From an article by the Financial Times about Orbit and similar sites:

Betfair applies a 2 per cent commission on all winning bets that come through the partners’ sites. The clones are required to route at least 50 per cent of their business through to the Betfair exchange, taking the remaining gambling risk on to their own books. Customers of the clones typically pay a total winning commission of 3.5 per cent, compared with the standard 5 per cent levied by Betfair in the UK
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arbusers
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Re: Are Betfair, Smarkets, Matchbook and clones still safe to use?
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2019, 05:24:40 PM »

to route at least 50 per cent of their business

''At least'' means also they could route 100% of volumes to Betfair.
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autobetting
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Re: Are Betfair, Smarkets, Matchbook and clones still safe to use?
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2019, 12:40:29 AM »

Sharp Bettors will be routed 100% to Betfair . Bonus Hunters, Gamblers,Addicts are applied with Position taking no more than 50%. The Rule will be applied after 2-3 Months monitoring the Action
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