How you track your placed bets?

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cocahontas
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cocahontas

How you track your placed bets?
« on: January 02, 2020, 01:31:51 AM »

Hello,
i wonder how people here are keeping their placed bets. Using for example betdiary or excell sheet etc. Which is in your opinion the simplest and fastest way to keep stats?
It should be easy to filter some stats which you need etc.

Thank you!
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VidaBlue
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Re: How you track your placed bets?
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2020, 10:26:55 AM »

It is a good topic as tracking the data is of crucial importance. Without, we will eventually find ourselves betting based upon wrong assumptions.

If you're using some kind of value- or surebetsoftware, those often come with built-in tracking features, which are fast and simple. You may also go for a dedicated tracking solution, such as the Smart Bet Tracker. I do neither. I spend much time on it, my approach is neither simple nor fast and I will not claim it to be best practice. However, although it takes much time, it works for my purpose and I will now share this, hoping to get some new inspiration.

I basically have a big spreadsheet with a data table, which I upload (backup) to a database frequently. The columns that I have chosen are: bet_datetime, match_datetime, sport, league, home-team, away-team, bettype, bookmaker, odds, stake, currency, outcome.

Wrt "sport" and "league" I have another table where I categorize all combinations according to the liquidity in that market. I have chosen just 3 levels of liquidity. The reason for this, is the importance of liquidity when determining which bookmakers are market leaders or "value references". Often traditional sharps, such as pinnacle and sbo, are trailing behind in low liquidity markets, so those are actually the "softs" in some cases. By having a second table, I don't need to evaluate liquidity level each time I register a bet - this can be fine-tuned during analysis. Categorizing liquidity without taking into account the time to game start (bet_datetime) is quite inaccurate, but still it is better than not categorizing at all.

Wrt bettype, I try to use a very consistent format, such that filtering is easier afterwards. For instance "1HL U 99.5" (under 99.5 points in the 1st half) or "MAP2 DRAGON O 4.5" (above 4.5 dragon kills on map 2).

I bet much offline, so many data are punched in manually reading the data on the tickets. I have had much betting online and still some today. For those accounts where I had many bets, I programmed some data-scrapers which I ran on a weekly basis. In some cases, if the site format allowed, I could also simply copy and paste the code into the spreadsheet and tidying it up a bit, otherwise it would be a manual process as well. For pinnacle, I extract data via their API which to this day is free (at least for me).

What I really would have liked to have registered, is the reference bookmaker and the odd, that the value bet is based upon. This way, I could afterwards have some notion of how big a value bet it was and whether particular bookmakers are good/bad references. I adjust the stake at the time of betting according to what I see and remember from the analysis, but it is very difficult to keep track of this while betting in casinos and shops. So this information is basically lost.

Another data-column which would be nice to have, are the market average closing odds. This information is obtainable though, if I go through the tedious process of looking that up afterwards for the thousands of bets already placed. I am not sure if the time required is worth the effort.
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Phoenixking
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Re: How you track your placed bets?
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2020, 11:16:02 AM »

It is a good topic as tracking the data is of crucial importance. Without, we will eventually find ourselves betting based upon wrong assumptions.

If you're using some kind of value- or surebetsoftware, those often come with built-in tracking features, which are fast and simple. You may also go for a dedicated tracking solution, such as the Smart Bet Tracker. I do neither. I spend much time on it, my approach is neither simple nor fast and I will not claim it to be best practice. However, although it takes much time, it works for my purpose and I will now share this, hoping to get some new inspiration.

I basically have a big spreadsheet with a data table, which I upload (backup) to a database frequently. The columns that I have chosen are: bet_datetime, match_datetime, sport, league, home-team, away-team, bettype, bookmaker, odds, stake, currency, outcome.

Wrt "sport" and "league" I have another table where I categorize all combinations according to the liquidity in that market. I have chosen just 3 levels of liquidity. The reason for this, is the importance of liquidity when determining which bookmakers are market leaders or "value references". Often traditional sharps, such as pinnacle and sbo, are trailing behind in low liquidity markets, so those are actually the "softs" in some cases. By having a second table, I don't need to evaluate liquidity level each time I register a bet - this can be fine-tuned during analysis. Categorizing liquidity without taking into account the time to game start (bet_datetime) is quite inaccurate, but still it is better than not categorizing at all.

Wrt bettype, I try to use a very consistent format, such that filtering is easier afterwards. For instance "1HL U 99.5" (under 99.5 points in the 1st half) or "MAP2 DRAGON O 4.5" (above 4.5 dragon kills on map 2).

I bet much offline, so many data are punched in manually reading the data on the tickets. I have had much betting online and still some today. For those accounts where I had many bets, I programmed some data-scrapers which I ran on a weekly basis. In some cases, if the site format allowed, I could also simply copy and paste the code into the spreadsheet and tidying it up a bit, otherwise it would be a manual process as well. For pinnacle, I extract data via their API which to this day is free (at least for me).

What I really would have liked to have registered, is the reference bookmaker and the odd, that the value bet is based upon. This way, I could afterwards have some notion of how big a value bet it was and whether particular bookmakers are good/bad references. I adjust the stake at the time of betting according to what I see and remember from the analysis, but it is very difficult to keep track of this while betting in casinos and shops. So this information is basically lost.

Another data-column which would be nice to have, are the market average closing odds. This information is obtainable though, if I go through the tedious process of looking that up afterwards for the thousands of bets already placed. I am not sure if the time required is worth the effort.
Great info dude, How do you actually determine liquidity in a given fixture or a market ? do you look at their limits ? I still have a feeling sometimes I'm chasing gamblers instead of sharps.
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cocahontas
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Re: How you track your placed bets?
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2020, 11:46:05 AM »

It is a good topic as tracking the data is of crucial importance. Without, we will eventually find ourselves betting based upon wrong assumptions.

If you're using some kind of value- or surebetsoftware, those often come with built-in tracking features, which are fast and simple. You may also go for a dedicated tracking solution, such as the Smart Bet Tracker. I do neither. I spend much time on it, my approach is neither simple nor fast and I will not claim it to be best practice. However, although it takes much time, it works for my purpose and I will now share this, hoping to get some new inspiration.

I basically have a big spreadsheet with a data table, which I upload (backup) to a database frequently. The columns that I have chosen are: bet_datetime, match_datetime, sport, league, home-team, away-team, bettype, bookmaker, odds, stake, currency, outcome.

Wrt "sport" and "league" I have another table where I categorize all combinations according to the liquidity in that market. I have chosen just 3 levels of liquidity. The reason for this, is the importance of liquidity when determining which bookmakers are market leaders or "value references". Often traditional sharps, such as pinnacle and sbo, are trailing behind in low liquidity markets, so those are actually the "softs" in some cases. By having a second table, I don't need to evaluate liquidity level each time I register a bet - this can be fine-tuned during analysis. Categorizing liquidity without taking into account the time to game start (bet_datetime) is quite inaccurate, but still it is better than not categorizing at all.

Wrt bettype, I try to use a very consistent format, such that filtering is easier afterwards. For instance "1HL U 99.5" (under 99.5 points in the 1st half) or "MAP2 DRAGON O 4.5" (above 4.5 dragon kills on map 2).

I bet much offline, so many data are punched in manually reading the data on the tickets. I have had much betting online and still some today. For those accounts where I had many bets, I programmed some data-scrapers which I ran on a weekly basis. In some cases, if the site format allowed, I could also simply copy and paste the code into the spreadsheet and tidying it up a bit, otherwise it would be a manual process as well. For pinnacle, I extract data via their API which to this day is free (at least for me).

What I really would have liked to have registered, is the reference bookmaker and the odd, that the value bet is based upon. This way, I could afterwards have some notion of how big a value bet it was and whether particular bookmakers are good/bad references. I adjust the stake at the time of betting according to what I see and remember from the analysis, but it is very difficult to keep track of this while betting in casinos and shops. So this information is basically lost.

Another data-column which would be nice to have, are the market average closing odds. This information is obtainable though, if I go through the tedious process of looking that up afterwards for the thousands of bets already placed. I am not sure if the time required is worth the effort.
Great info dude, How do you actually determine liquidity in a given fixture or a market ? do you look at their limits ? I still have a feeling sometimes I'm chasing gamblers instead of sharps.

Thank you for sharing your system! nice to see how others keep stats because its very important in my opinion.

Im looking forward if other members of this forum will share their ideas. I always like to learn something new :)
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VidaBlue
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Re: How you track your placed bets?
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2020, 12:21:20 PM »

Great info dude, How do you actually determine liquidity in a given fixture or a market ? do you look at their limits ? I still have a feeling sometimes I'm chasing gamblers instead of sharps.
I think you are very true in your assumption chasing gamblers instead of sharps. 100 dollars can move a pinnacle low liquidity line completely and you will see that the market immediately reacts. You see a lot of bookmakers adjust their odds accordingly in the minutes afterwards. So a gambler randomly placing 100 dollars could actually be the reason why 10.000 dollars are being staked at other bookmakers, as users' non-limited soft book accounts are betting on this market based on the signal they get from their value-betting software assuming pinnacle is always sharp.

As for evaluating liquidity, I just base it upon general limits at the bookmakers. So for instance:
Cat1 (high liquidity): basket, nba
Cat2 (medium liquidity): soccer, poland ekstraklasa
Cat3 (low liquidity): hockey, denmark

Of course this gets more complicated when you include the second line bets. For instance, the liquidity for the player special market (points, rebounds, etc.) in the nba is a Cat2.
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arbusers
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Re: How you track your placed bets?
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2020, 12:22:52 PM »

A massive thank you to VidaBlue for sharing. One of the most valuable posters of our forum.

Analysis and meta-analysis is a powerful weapon in smart gambling. I 'd say it is more powerful in value betting than any other smart betting type. One should be able to utilize this analysis and thus transform information into money. Even the smallest detail, one that might initially be characterized as insignificant, could be a source of wealth. For example:

The reason for this, is the importance of liquidity when determining which bookmakers are market leaders or "value references".

The analysis is good, but the meta-analysis would reveal exactly the opposite, meaning, which bookmakers are NOT a value reference leading to the conclusion that they do their job efficiently. If you know at which markets/sports they are good at, maybe you could exploit this information too.
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VidaBlue
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Re: How you track your placed bets?
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2020, 12:41:51 PM »

A massive thank you to VidaBlue for sharing. One of the most valuable posters of our forum.

The analysis is good, but the meta-analysis would reveal exactly the opposite, meaning, which bookmakers are NOT a value reference leading to the conclusion that they do their job efficiently. If you know at which markets/sports they are good at, maybe you could exploit this information too.
Thank you arbusers. I appreciate your compliment, and in return I will say thank to this forum and its members, which have been invaluable for some years now.

I totally agree with you on the meta-analysis part, maybe I just did not express myself clearly. The term "value reference" is to me someone which I refer to in order to get an idea of the true odds - a "market leader" - I would never place my bets here. So the purpose is exactly to know which bookmakers are doing their job efficiently. For instance bet365's very advanced models in some cases or pinnacle's competitive sharp players playing high stakes in other cases.
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Phoenixking
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Re: How you track your placed bets?
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2020, 01:17:26 PM »

Great info dude, How do you actually determine liquidity in a given fixture or a market ? do you look at their limits ? I still have a feeling sometimes I'm chasing gamblers instead of sharps.
I think you are very true in your assumption chasing gamblers instead of sharps. 100 dollars can move a pinnacle low liquidity line completely and you will see that the market immediately reacts. You see a lot of bookmakers adjust their odds accordingly in the minutes afterwards. So a gambler randomly placing 100 dollars could actually be the reason why 10.000 dollars are being staked at other bookmakers, as users' non-limited soft book accounts are betting on this market based on the signal they get from their value-betting software assuming pinnacle is always sharp.

As for evaluating liquidity, I just base it upon general limits at the bookmakers. So for instance:
Cat1 (high liquidity): basket, nba
Cat2 (medium liquidity): soccer, poland ekstraklasa
Cat3 (low liquidity): hockey, denmark

Of course this gets more complicated when you include the second line bets. For instance, the liquidity for the player special market (points, rebounds, etc.) in the nba is a Cat2.
Thanks man, I just checked some of the leagues I bet on has piss poor liquidity.:( 100-125 USD. is there any website where we can check the max bet for every league for pinnacle  ?
Sorry for hijacking your thread OP, I'm a newbie as well. The stats I usually take note are  Date,    Country, League, Fixture, Starting bank,  Stake, Odds,   Bet Mkt, Outcome, Stake loss/Gain.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 01:25:42 PM by Phoenixking » Logged
VidaBlue
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Re: How you track your placed bets?
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2020, 01:31:25 PM »

is there any website where we can check the max bet for every league for pinnacle  ?
If there was, it would be difficult to depict as liquidity in the same market increases continuously. I suppose it depends upon time to match start, money in the pot and which references the bookie has for setting the odds. I observe that some of the low liquidity hockey lines on pinnacle get a 4 time liquidity increase when start time is approaching.
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Re: How you track your placed bets?
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2020, 01:13:28 AM »

Smart Bet Tracker owner here.

Regarding fields to track, the more you track, the more you can analyze, but it involves more time. This is what we track (many fields are optional and most fields can be filled automatically with information about the event and market we get from Betfair):

General information:
Bet type (Bet | Surebet | Parlay | Other | Trading | Valuebet | Each way)
Free bet? (stake does not reduce balance)
Public/private?
Tipster
Comments (general comment for the bet - free text)
Tags (one or many)

About the bet
Bookmaker (and currency)
Bet date and time
Stake (bookmaker currency and default currency if other)
Odds
Lay?
Bet result (Pending | Won | Lost | Half won | half lost | Void | Other won | Other lost)
Payout
Commission

About the events (as bets can involve multiple lines, this information is for each line in the bet)
Event date and time
Sport (https://www.smartbettracker.com/sports)
Country (https://www.smartbettracker.com/countries)
or Continent (https://www.smartbettracker.com/continents)
Competition
Event

About the market (for each line)
Period (Match | 1st half | 2nd half | 1st quarter .. 4th quarter | 1st set .. 5th set | 1st inning | 1st 5 innings | 1st period .. 3rd period)
Market (BTTS | CS | Double chance | DNB | AH | Home / Away | Home / Draw / Away | Odd or Even | Other | OU | Proposition | Winner)
Outcome (Yes | No | Home or Draw | Draw or Away | Home or Away | Home | Draw | Away | Odd | Even | Yes | No | Over | Under)
Comment (free text)

Filling everything is very tedious, but most fields have default values and many other fields are populated by choosing the event and market information we provide. So what's really mandatory is the stake, bookmaker and odds. Moreover, bets are settled automatically if the event and market were chosen from the lists, so there's no need to enter the result, payout or commission in most cases.

If two or more bets are part of a surebet, we can track them together, so that you can analyze surebets.

With Smart Bet Tracker you can also track other relevant transactions such as deposits, withdrawals, transfers, bonuses or fees, which also affect your balances so that you can always reconcile balances in the application with your bookmakers and wallets.
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Re: How you track your placed bets?
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2020, 11:53:18 AM »

I use bettingmetrics. Used a very nice excel also but minus is that this excel spreadsheet takes 3x longer to fill compared to bettingmetrics service(which costs only 10eur per month). Bettingmetrics very good in my opinion. have been using trademate sports(and their tracking), smart bet tracker and excels but bettingmetrics so far the best. In my opinion its the best you use tipsters also because you can analyse the data regarding with each tipster(roi, avg odds etc).  Bad thing is that if the bet not available in asia then you cant put in league/venue info manually. Some bets settle automatically if in Asia(like in betfair) but when most bets are in soft bookies then info about leagues and closing odds not updated manually. Nevertheless i really fancy this service. Staff is really supportive(usually solves problems even in weekends in less than 2 hours), have good developments going on(recently they added staking plans simulator where you can compare different staking systems and how they would performed in previous months for example) and a lot of info to analyse. Suggest to give it a try atleast :)
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