Bad BetInAsia-Pinnacle experience: Void bet even if shown placed on Black Tool

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Author Topic: Bad BetInAsia-Pinnacle experience: Void bet even if shown placed on Black Tool  (Read 890 times)
giannis89
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giannis89


Dear Arbusers,
First of all, apologies for the long post but it's the minimum I could write to make you understand the situation. I want to share with you a bad experience I recently had with BetInAsia and Pinnacle, which makes me think that we’re not protected at all as customers from agents and any bookies, as they can use any term to avoid paying Won bets. I would expect Singbet to do that but it seems Pinnacle do the same now. 

I had bet on yesterday’s match Inter-Torino on O4.5 goals (500Euros at 2.15 odds). The bet was shown as ''placed'' in the Black Tool but I was also sure as I was looking it placed that instant moment. After the bet being placed, there was a suspicion of a penalty kick and the referee stopped the game and used VAR to give a penalty to Inter. Inter scored and I would expect the bet would be paid, but in my surprise, the full bet was voided.


I contacted BetInAsia asking for the reasons why this is placed as Void, as it was clearly settled in the BetInAsia tool. I received the following responses.
 
Hello _____,

Thank you for your patience. We take our customer complaints seriously, and your feedback is valuable.

Upon consulting our related department we want to inform you that your bet was voided because when you placed the Live bet there was a VAR decision. Kindly take note that the decision for voiding your bets lies solely at the bookies' discretion and we as betting brokers cannot help in this situation. The bookies handle settlements, and we can only assist if there are some technical issues with the placed bets.

We are proud that you have selected us as your betting brokerage provider and thank you for understanding.
Kind regards,
_____



The response didn't cover me as I was watching the game live and my bet was placed before the suspicion of the penalty and before the use of VAR. Also, in my next email I tried to explain that if the bet was placed during or after VAR, then the bet would be in Danger zone and rejected.

Their response was again similar:

Once again we are sorry to inform you that voiding bets are at the bookie's discretion, we have nothing to do with it and we can not change the way they sometimes void certain bets.

We received a response,  that due to multiple VAR decisions on the event the final settlement is full void.


After that I got desperate as I couldn't believe how a placed won bet can be settled as void so I asked them to give me more details, surely I thought this was also BetInAsia's fault as they showed the bet as 'Placed' in the Black Tool and also if there was a VAR process, then the bet should have been in Danger zone and rejected.
So, I asked them to send me the proof by pinnacle why the bet was voided, the actual time of placing the bet, the actual time of the game stopped because of VAR and everything that proves that Pinnacle voided the bet fairly, including their specific term and condition under under which they voided the bet.

So, their final response was the below, and this is where I want the opinion of Arbusers and the members of this forum.

Hello _______,

Thank you for reaching BetInAsia once again.

As our agents already mentioned, we are sorry for this situation but there is nothing we can do since settlements are handled by the bookies themselves.

Please take note that we proceeded with your query to the related department, it was reviewed and then we got back to you with an answer.

The reason for voiding a bet was due to VAR which occurred in the 61st and in 84th minute of the match and according to the Pinnacle rules " Any live bet made prior to the time of a decision of the Video Assistant Referee (VAR) which conflicts with the original decision (or non-decision, such as allowing play to continue after a possible infraction before reviewing the video) by the official on the field will be treated as void if the odds offered on that specific bet are materially affected by the VAR decision. "

We are truly grateful to have you as a customer and we look forward to many years to come.
Kind regards,
___



And after all this, I have the following questions.
Is there such a rule in Pinnacle’s terms and conditions which would indicate that they can void any bets even 1 minute before any use of VAR and if bets are placed? This means that they can void any bets whenever they want.
My bet was clearly placed before the moment there was a suspicion of a Penalty kick and before the referee stopped the game and used the VAR to give the penalty kick, why is this supposed to be void after that?
Also, BetInAsia Black Tool showed the bet as settled, if it was the VAR then the bet should have been in Danger Zone as all markets are supposed to be frozen, which it clearly wasn’t.
I don’t want to say bad things about BetInAsia as they seemed ok to me until now but now I have my doubts, especially after the bet was placed and shown as placed in the Black Tool.
Any ideas? Is there any way I can get the money I deserve? I feel I got robbed. The bet was placed before the moment of the Penalty and the use of VAR, if that’s the case then everyone can get their bets voided without being able to do anything about it. And last but not least, how do we know that those who had laid O4.5 did get their bet voided and the bookies didn't use that term for their own benefit?

Thanks all and apologies for the long post.

« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 01:41:12 AM by giannis89 » Logged
apoel81
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apoel81


Had similar issue with VAR with 18bet via Sportmarket few months ago. Bet accepted and voided after game ended. Knew it from the begginning that maybe something was wrong as 18bet accepted the bet while all other bookies were suspending odds/lines.Accepted it and moved on.

At the end, it all comes down to how much you trust your agent.

According to Pinnacle T&C: ''Any live bet made prior to the time of a decision of the Video Assistant Referee (VAR) which conflicts with the original decision (or non-decision, such as allowing play to continue after a possible infraction before reviewing the video) by the official on the field will be treated as void if the odds offered on that specific bet are materially affected by the VAR decision.​''

Have in mind that your stream might had 5-10 seconds delay and even you placed your bet in good faith, in reality your bet might indeed affected by Var decision.
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arbusers
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arbusers


Thank you Giannis89 for posting your experience. I believe it can be very educative.

I informed BetInAsia and they will comment very soon.

Some comments from me.

1. As apoel81 implied, there is a time delay between what happens right now, and when you see it on your screen. The average delay I believe is around 16 seconds, but I have seen cases with a delay of 25 seconds. So my question to you is how much earlier did you place your bet?

2. I can only suppose this case has nothing to do with the platform, Mollybet, this should be cleared by BetInAsia.

3. That specific term of Pinnacle is a lose/lose situation against the player. A specific time frame should be mentioned, otherwise it is a wide open hole that will trap a lot of genuine action.

Lastly, did you lay that bet elsewhere?

Once again, thank you for posting.
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giannis89
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giannis89


Thank you both for your reply.

I was watching the game live on bet365 platform, normally the video stream is approx. 5-6 seconds late but I could see that the markets in bet365 were frozen before the stream so I knew that something might have happened. The bet was surely accepted before the markets got frozen in bet365 and before the moment of the potential penalty kick and that makes sense, if otherwise my bet would be in Danger Zone and then rejected, I have seen this story (bet rejected in Danger zone) as everyone I guess many times.

That's why I cannot understand why this bet should be void. Surely, with these terms Pinnacle can void any bet that the VAR was used even 30-40 seconds - 1min before VAR being used. I asked BetInAsia to clarify if the bets on U4.5 from other customers were settled as Lost, just to see if Pinnacle use that term for their own benefit, but I don't expect BetInAsia to provide me with that info.

Arbusers, to respond to your question, I didn't Lay the bet elsewhere that's why I don't know what has happened with the 'Lay' bets in this specific occasion.

It has started being really frustrating, Singbet has voided one of my bets recently (that's my own risk though and I would expect this from those thiefs), even Betfair cancelled a Matched bet recently that was initially matched and after 3 seconds the team scored, with the excuse that the markets should have been suspended, although again I could see it was clearly Matched. I thought that betting with agents on Asian bookies was the best way as they offer better odds, lowest margins etc. but in the long term, if adding all those voided Won bets, eventually you get ripped off and the odds are even worst than the normal bookies. Not to mention what can happen if someone lays a bet simultaneously, and only one of the bets counts eventually, that's a disaster as this is a double loss. 

Thanks arbusers for contacting BetInAsia, let us know if anything comes up. I hope my experience is valuable to the people in this forum, as for sure others will get ripped off soon under these terms, at least they have to know what to expect.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 10:34:22 AM by giannis89 » Logged
BetInAsia
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BetInAsia


Hi Giannis89,

Thank you for your genuine approach to this situation.

Unfortunately, as our customer support informed you, Pinnacle voided the bet due to VAR decisions according to their T&Cs rules.
Source: https://www.pinnacle.com/en/future/betting-rules#Soccer

BLACK trading software connects Pinnacle among its bookmakers and received a successful placement, which was reversed approximately 6 minutes later from the bookmaker. BetInAsia BLACK in this case, serves as an intermediary, but the general T&C of the bookmakers apply.

We agree that this may imply and leave an open door for discretionary decision by the bookies, but Pinnacle does not have that sort of reputation and voided the bet according to their T&Cs.

We thank you for your feedback and sorry for the situation happening. Our goal is to always provide the best quality service to our customers.
For more help, we are here to assist you.
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cosmmin
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Hi Giannis89,

Im 100% sure that was latebet so don't make this discussion to say BetInAsia or pinnacle void you.
Me and my team makes the same in this event because was big delay on bookies and we all be payed from same platform.
So please at least be Professionals and not amateurs.
I really dont understand this child behavior.

P.S. I'm also Greek so don't try to say that wasn't latebet.

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giannis89
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giannis89


Hey cosmmin,
I think your head is confused.

Quote
Im 100% sure that was latebet so don't make this discussion to say BetInAsia or pinnacle void you.
I did not mention anywhere in this topic was type of bet it was, but what’s the difference if it was an arb or a latebet? And why should I not make this discussion that my bet was voided, since this is what is actually happened?

Quote
Me and my team makes the same in this event because was big delay on bookies and we all be payed from same platform.
Don’t really understand what you mean by that, it’s not communicated by you very well. Do you mean that you got paid your latebet from the same platform? It could have happened if you placed your bet 1 minute before me of course. What is the team you are referring to?

Quote
So please at least be Professionals and not amateurs.
I only consider myself as a player that is trying to make money from betting. You made your first post calling me amateur for posting something that might be helpful for the community?  :-\ Am I amateur by saying that the bookies' terms and conditions leave an open door for any VAR decision, and that they can use them at their discretion for their own benefit, without the player having a say and being able to do anything about it?

Quote
I really dont understand this child behavior.
In my opinion you look like a child with this post, no offence.

Quote
P.S. I'm also Greek so don't try to say that wasn't latebet.
Didn't know that only Greeks bet on a late goal in this game ;D. So ,your argument is that because you're Greek, I shouldn't try to say it was not a late bet..... Hmmm  ::)

Nobody said it was not a latebet, but what’s the difference? It could be even worse if it was an arb, as someone could also lose double the money for laying the bet elsewhere.

P.S Did you really understand the aim of this topic?

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apoel81
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apoel81


Hey cosmmin,
I think your head is confused.

Quote
Im 100% sure that was latebet so don't make this discussion to say BetInAsia or pinnacle void you.
I did not mention anywhere in this topic was type of bet it was, but what’s the difference if it was an arb or a latebet? And why should I not make this discussion that my bet was voided, since this is what is actually happened?

Quote
Me and my team makes the same in this event because was big delay on bookies and we all be payed from same platform.
Don’t really understand what you mean by that, it’s not communicated by you very well. Do you mean that you got paid your latebet from the same platform? It could have happened if you placed your bet 1 minute before me of course. What is the team you are referring to?

Quote
So please at least be Professionals and not amateurs.
I only consider myself as a player that is trying to make money from betting. You made your first post calling me amateur for posting something that might be helpful for the community?  :-\ Am I amateur by saying that the bookies' terms and conditions leave an open door for any VAR decision, and that they can use them at their discretion for their own benefit, without the player having a say and being able to do anything about it?

Quote
I really dont understand this child behavior.
In my opinion you look like a child with this post, no offence.

Quote
P.S. I'm also Greek so don't try to say that wasn't latebet.
Didn't know that only Greeks bet on a late goal in this game ;D. So ,your argument is that because you're Greek, I shouldn't try to say it was not a late bet..... Hmmm  ::)

Nobody said it was not a latebet, but what’s the difference? It could be even worse if it was an arb, as someone could also lose double the money for laying the bet elsewhere.

P.S Did you really understand the aim of this topic?

By ''latebet'' think he means that var/goal was already scored when you placed the bet.

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