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new point of consumption tax in the uk

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arbusers
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk

Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:31 pm

I had a skype chat with managers from PT and AC.
AC told me that they will receive deposits in GBP but all accounts given to clients will be in Euro currency.
PT told me that they are working on it and they will offer accounts in GBP and will accept deposits and withdrawals in this currency. They need 5 to 10 days from now. The earliest to offer GBP accounts will be this Monday, and the latest will be next Monday.

I understand that many UK players will use agents as an alternative solution to the loss of Pinnacle, SBObet and who knows who else. It remains to be seen how the UK government will try to stop agents from offering their services to UK gamblers. So far, no European government managed to stop agents and that includes big markets such as Spain, France, Germany, Italy and Greece. The only government that works as a scarecrow for agents is the US.
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk

Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:41 pm

UK government has already been told by the ISP's that they will NOT be blocking any traffic relating to websites deliberately ignoring the new regulations.

I've already made contact with PT and quoted Arbusers as my referrer
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk

Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:07 pm

Account belongs to the agent, you are given it to use as normal.
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk

Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:12 pm

Any idea about Betfair?
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk

Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:36 pm

EatSleepArbRepeat wrote: Account belongs to the agent, you are given it to use as normal.
Problem then is the IP: what if pinny start geo-blocking the UK? They didn't do that with the US at first, but after the legal problems last year they did.

VPNs obviously work but then pinny might get suspicious.
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk

Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:35 pm

MaxShalamar wrote: Would it be your IP or the agent's?
For AC I believe all their accounts are just regular logons, so it's be your own IP. You could place the bets via Skype to their customer service, then it's probably from Asia or wherever they're based.

Dunno wrt PT.
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk

Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:54 pm

This new bill is an addition to the  2010  HMRC Reference:Notice 451 (April 2010).
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageExcise_ShowContent&propertyType=document&id=HMCE_CL_000255#toc

According to that both agents and exchanges are liable for this tax.


8.2 How do I account for duty on agency bets?
If you act as an agent for someone else, we will treat you as a bet-broker and you must account for duty as if the bet was made with you.
8.4 Do bet-brokers account for duty on commission?
General betting duty is not due on commissions earned by bet-brokers. Duty is calculated only from the value of the bets made and the winnings paid out.


From what I understand the books are not liable for any taxes if the bets are placed through agents. The responsibility lies with the agent - broker. Hopefully the UK won't go after them.

For exchanges

9.1 What is the duty charged on?

General betting duty is due on any amount that a betting exchange charges to other parties who use its facilities to make bets, for example:

    commission charges
    administration fees
    deductions from winnings, etc


So I think Betfair would have to pay not just 15% of the  total commission but for data and Premium charges too.
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk

Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:05 am

qbet wrote: This new bill is an addition to the  2010  HMRC Reference:Notice 451 (April 2010).
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageExcise_ShowContent&propertyType=document&id=HMCE_CL_000255#toc

According to that both agents and exchanges are liable for this tax.


8.2 How do I account for duty on agency bets?
If you act as an agent for someone else, we will treat you as a bet-broker and you must account for duty as if the bet was made with you.
8.4 Do bet-brokers account for duty on commission?
General betting duty is not due on commissions earned by bet-brokers. Duty is calculated only from the value of the bets made and the winnings paid out.


From what I understand the books are not liable for any taxes if the bets are placed through agents. The responsibility lies with the agent - broker. Hopefully the UK won't go after them.

For exchanges

9.1 What is the duty charged on?

General betting duty is due on any amount that a betting exchange charges to other parties who use its facilities to make bets, for example:

    commission charges
    administration fees
    deductions from winnings, etc


So I think Betfair would have to pay not just 15% of the  total commission but for data and Premium charges too.
if a broker is not based in the UK and places bets with Pinnacesports or Sbobet or similar who do no not hold
a UK license, then basically you have a foreign company doing business with a foreign company with a UK citizen,
it is the companies who pay the tax, it sounds like a loophole, since the invention of tax there is always been
attempts to avoid it, some legal, some illegal, part of the problem for governments is finding the tax evaders,
millions get away with it, if a UK citizen uses a foreign agent to make bets with a foreign bookmaker then it should
be very difficult and too time consuming for the government to police this?
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk

Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:42 pm

Let's NOT make this thread an arena for confrontations.
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk

Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:52 am

For the moment we have 12bet , SBO and pinnacle out.
Do you believe that dafabet and 188bet will follow?
188bet will be a big loss since there is not agent supporting them..
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk

Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:04 am

I m sure that 188bet will follow. They got out of every country where antigambling laws are implemented. They did it the last day. I m sure they will do the same with the UK.
Dafa belongs to the same group like SBO, IBC etc. The will go in the end.
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk

Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:49 pm

MaxShalamar wrote:
Looter wrote: For the moment we have 12bet , SBO and pinnacle out.
Do you believe that dafabet and 188bet will follow?
188bet will be a big loss since there is not agent supporting them..
On a side note I wonder what will happen with the sponsorship deals for Hull (12bet) and possibly Villa (Dafa)
probably nothing, unless the new legislation forbids it. a lot of people that live in countries where you can still bet online watch the EPL.  I mean, Getafe is sponsored by a betting company that only has a Chinese website, that says it all who they're really targeting with these kinds of deals..
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk

Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:41 pm

Arbusers wrote: I m sure that 188bet will follow. They got out of every country where antigambling laws are implemented. They did it the last day. I m sure they will do the same with the UK.
Dafa belongs to the same group like SBO, IBC etc. The will go in the end.
Is there any chance to have 188bet with an agent?
What about 12bet or dafa?

Thanks
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk

Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:47 pm

Very difficult. There are a lot of agents but we are looking for reliable.
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Re: new point of consumption tax in the uk

Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:40 pm

What is also unclear for the moment is the ip location restrictions for the agent account.
If all UK users have to use non UK ips in order to use the agent accounts there will be a lot of limitations since the soft bookies will still require UK ips...

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