Arbusers

jagas wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 10, 2022 1:26 pm

What i do not understand with this white labels and betfair is why the limits and the closing of white labels if the exchange is just betting again other bettors?

Or are the exchange bringing in their own Money?, i understand the issue with Asianconnect since they take position on Bettors but the other white labels like Piwi, why would they close down if they cover the same bet in exchange. Bascially EXchanges should not be worried who wins or Lose.

Or am i missing something?

I think it has to do with the market makers. At some point, there has to be a counterparty to your bet. If you win it, you're taking money out of the system.

If Betfair wants to run a nice site for the great big mass of players, then they have to make sure there are market makers. If there are no market makers, the site is dead and there are no odds.
For the market makers to turn a profit at a reasonable vig, the ratio of sharks:fish in their order flow has to be good.
Therefore, Betfair takes steps to kick the profitable punters off too, just not as loudly.

In all likelihood, betfair makes some of the markets, because why wouldn't they, and takes a position against their really square customers; at least that's my theory.

Really, the MollyBet guys should get their act together instead.

Many years ago, when Betfair Exchange was in many more markets, as far as I remember, a member of the BF management told on their website that BF will guarantee some liquidity on the Horse Racing.
Additionally, as far as I remember, somewhere in the very old Terms and Conditions, published by TSE, they reserved the right to take positions when it comes to their customers outside Great Britain.
Later was introduced Premium Charge, and then Super Premium Charge. Later due to legislation BF left many countries. The above, plus some corporative changes (first Paddy Power, then Flutter) caused raised pressure from the shareholders for corporative profit.
In short - the initial idea for pure Sporting Exchange between the customers and BF charging only commissions, nowadays is not what it seems.
Several other so-called Exchanges introduced hidden Premium Charges or "investigated" profitable players and kicked them, instead of competing with Betfair for clients.
Generally, toxic atmosphere for the profitable players - PIWI Exchange failed, Pinny is not what it used to be (Winners Welcome slogan), Betfair White Labels aren't trustworthy, and so forth. The bookies are clear for years. As far as I remember, Pinny was planning to introduce their internal Sporting Exchange.
I'm awaiting Molly's Exchange response.

IMV, all problems previously hidden under the carpet, were revealed when big (gambling) countries one after another introduced regulation and banned exchanges like Betfair to operate in their territory. Volumes were then reduced, and profits had to follow. When cash asphyxia is in place, a vicious spiral is created when at least 1 part of the market requires to maintain profits at the previous levels.
We have seen this phenomenon several times in the past. Betfair in the late 00s, was the first time I noticed how greed and bad management could kill the market.
I remember attending some affiliate conferences, and there were people fighting for a slot just to speak to someone from Betfair. Betfair managers didn't even care to speak to big affiliates that would bring in immense volumes. Fast forward to today, have a look at Betfair stands...they are empty.
Of course, I dont have data in my hands, but it is my firm belief that white labels like Orbit, have more volumes than Betfair itself.

arbusers wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:07 am

IMV, all problems previously hidden under the carpet, were revealed when big (gambling) countries one after another introduced regulation and banned exchanges like Betfair to operate in their territory. Volumes were then reduced, and profits had to follow. When cash asphyxia is in place, a vicious spiral is created when at least 1 part of the market requires to maintain profits at the previous levels.
We have seen this phenomenon several times in the past. Betfair in the late 00s, was the first time I noticed how greed and bad management could kill the market.
I remember attending some affiliate conferences, and there were people fighting for a slot just to speak to someone from Betfair. Betfair managers didn't even care to speak to big affiliates that would bring in immense volumes. Fast forward to today, have a look at Betfair stands...they are empty.
Of course, I dont have data in my hands, but it is my firm belief that white labels like Orbit, have more volumes than Betfair itself.

Very well said, Arbusers.
I think, that most of Betfair Exchange's services worsened when they left the German market. Additionally, very smart players from Russia (a big market for them in the past), Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia, some South American places, and so on, were excluded from direct connections to BF Exchange and that is not good. Regretfully, the Betfair White Labels are not what they have to be for the players from mentioned above countries. In my view, the corporate deal BF-The Stars Group worsened very much the conditions for the players. Every smart player was forced to save her/his business or leave this one.

@ Arbusers,
I'm goin' to be a little offtopic,
You have big experience and a global view of the betting markets. How do you think, is it is possible to be introduced some improvements to mitigate the toxic atmosphere for the smart players nowadays? For instance, you have business connections to the supported agents and others in the industry, is there a possibility to be realized an idea like a kind of insurance for smart players, aimed to be prevented "mapping issues" situations like these in the MollyBet platform and Matchbook or others similar? I mean possible cases, described in that thread - pro-sportmarket-bets-status-failed-than ... 659#p89659
I have got an idea - is there a possibility for the customers, willing to subscribe to that kind of product, to pay some insurance fees or something on a monthly basis or a percent of a turnover/profits, to www.arbusers.com regarding your referrals? Or a possibility for the players, willing to purchase that kind of product, to pay some insurance fees to your supported agents if the players are willing to purchase the insurance for their protection if similar cases arise in the future and Gambit avoids the responsibility to settle the fair settlement? I mean that will raise the trust of the customers toward the business in general, and you (www.arbusers.com) and the supported by your website agents will have some additional sources for profit. Win-Win situation for all the sides.
Thanks in advance for your response.

I am afraid this is not possible. There are a lot of bad will players in this sphere that will try to take advantage of any insurance scheme.

OMG, I hadn't thought of that. For legitimate players, there are two possible threats now - the settlement misuse/disorder by the betting platform, and abuse from some shady players (harming both the platform and in an indirect way the legitimate players).

Your assessment is correct.

So I've read a bit about it on here, but I can't quite figure out how orbit's exchange liquidity works. I have orbit via AC, and early I noticed how orbit always had about double the liquidity of betfair in my local currency. At first I thought they just doubled it for some reason, but upon investigating a bit it turns out that if I post an unmatched bet of 100 euro, only 50 euro shows up on betfair. If I post 100 euros on betfair - there's a 200 euro post on orbit. I feel like an idiot for not understanding how this works, can someone help? Because as far as I can tell - I could offer 1000 bucks on something dumb on betfair and take the bet for 2000 bucks on orbit pocketing the difference? (I wouldn't do this ofcourse - but just to explain why the mechanic the way it seems to work is so nonsensical)

adam scott wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:25 pm

So I've read a bit about it on here, but I can't quite figure out how orbit's exchange liquidity works. I have orbit via AC, and early I noticed how orbit always had about double the liquidity of betfair in my local currency. At first I thought they just doubled it for some reason, but upon investigating a bit it turns out that if I post an unmatched bet of 100 euro, only 50 euro shows up on betfair. If I post 100 euros on betfair - there's a 200 euro post on orbit. I feel like an idiot for not understanding how this works, can someone help? Because as far as I can tell - I could offer 1000 bucks on something dumb on betfair and take the bet for 2000 bucks on orbit pocketing the difference? (I wouldn't do this ofcourse - but just to explain why the mechanic the way it seems to work is so nonsensical)

Someone is taking a position on/against your position. But it's more interesting for your business onward, is your broker practicing or not various kinds of liquidity pools after profiling you, like in some forex brokers, e.g. pool A, pool B, ECN market, and so on. For example, if you're a winner in the long haul, is there a possibility all your positions to be placed as they are, without the "position taking" factor by the broker? Naturally, they may put their own parallel positions like your ones at their expense or something else.

arb12 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:59 pm

adam scott wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:25 pm

So I've read a bit about it on here, but I can't quite figure out how orbit's exchange liquidity works. I have orbit via AC, and early I noticed how orbit always had about double the liquidity of betfair in my local currency. At first I thought they just doubled it for some reason, but upon investigating a bit it turns out that if I post an unmatched bet of 100 euro, only 50 euro shows up on betfair. If I post 100 euros on betfair - there's a 200 euro post on orbit. I feel like an idiot for not understanding how this works, can someone help? Because as far as I can tell - I could offer 1000 bucks on something dumb on betfair and take the bet for 2000 bucks on orbit pocketing the difference? (I wouldn't do this ofcourse - but just to explain why the mechanic the way it seems to work is so nonsensical)

Someone is taking a position on/against your position. But it's more interesting for your business onward, is your broker practicing or not various kinds of liquidity pools after profiling you, like in some forex brokers, e.g. pool A, pool B, ECN market, and so on. For example, if you're a winner in the long haul, is there a possibility all your positions to be placed as they are, without the "position taking" factor by the broker? Naturally, they may put their own parallel positions like your ones at their expense or something else.

But that someone would have to be the broker itself, since the liquidity looks that way instantaneously when I post a bet? Because the amount is doubled/halved in realtime when it's posted. Also - if this was the case it would mean that I'm being backed by liquidity on my local betfair account (which I really don't think) and being bet against on orbit with the exact same amount (since all bets I place on betfair are available for double the amount). To me this just seems completely implausible, can you tell me why I'm mistaken?

- These questions are addressed to someone in the betting industry hierarchy. By the way, such people read here for sure. Let's hope they'll answer the questions (that's very doubtful).

While you're awaiting their answer, make the following:
- Open the market windows without logging in. View the liquidity. Compare that to the liquidity, when you're logged in.
- View your real part of the position, which they're placing. Both the directions.

Again, their approach later toward you, if you're a winning player, is much more interesting for you, if you're a pro.

Joao Moreira wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:45 am

junoreactor wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:21 pm

I have a question regarding the exposure limit.

Orbitx accounts usually have a 3k limit (BIA, AC), or even 1.5k limit (Brokerstorm), I trade offplay so I need at least 5k exposure. I emailed bet-football and they told me they is no limit at all on Orbitx (though the commission is 4%).

Did anyone try through this broker? I find it surprising they set no limit. Would be great to have a feedback from any user here.

I have been betting with them for a while. They used to allow increasing the exposure upon request. But now it’s even easier, they have implemented an automatic exposure limit updater. So Orbit accounts via Bet-Football shouldn’t have any issues with exposure since it updates according to the customer's balance every 5-10 seconds. As for BIA or AC I cannot tell for sure but they probably do have an exposure limit. Hope this helps.

Ok, thanks for your feedback.

How it is possible to use a bot on Orbit? Are there specific tools as bots for Betfair or some bot for Betfair modified or have no otehr choice then place bets manually on orbit?

Thanks in advance.

arbusers wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:40 pm

bettinator wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:36 pm

How it is possible to use a bot on Orbit? Are there specific tools as bots for Betfair or some bot for Betfair modified or have no other choice then place bets manually on orbit?

It is my belief that Orbit is very negative, not to say hostile, when they detect bot action in the accounts. How could it be differently really?

Ok, thanks for warning, I'll continue manually

Hi Friends,

I am new to the forum and needing help and advise on the orbit i took via Asianconnect.
I have had an account with them for over 1 year but not a steady bettor up till recently. I deposited and win and lose, i deposit more till my account has built some money. All my bets were daily special event and not adbnormal betting. Sometimes i arb once in 3 days or 1 week.

On friday, i requested a withdrawl from orbit and was informed that it would take 12 hours to review my account and send the withdraw. That did not happen till Sunday evening when i chatted them. They just keep saying that Upline is checking my account to approve the withdrawl.

This is Tuesday and Upline has not finished checking my acocunt since it is the same thing they keep saying.
Is this normal or is something fishy with Asianconnect? because i do not think this is an issue with other agents.
What do i do because i am killing myself with frustration here?
Arbuser can you give a suggestion pls?