Arbusers

Is the volume of bets placed on top 2 sharps comparable to Betfair (pre match)or a lot bigger (I am talking about volumes in big football matches like World Cup , Champions League). So the main question is : Do Betfair prices influece more in sharps odds, or the other way...the top 2 sharps that move betfair prices.
Thanks in advance for any information.

yes, for soccer, and big leagues especially, betfair is nothing... the asian market is relevant, that's where the biggest turnover is, and where price moves first!

they influnce each other not in a specifical order,sometimes it's bf on pin/sbo sometimes is sbo over bf/pin or pin over bf/sbo ....sure they react quickly and line up with the first mover...don't forget matchbook too

It is IBCbet and clones moving the lines. The rest just follow.

ty arbuser,i think for the most time you are right especially in soccer big leagues,not the same for tennis and american sports,however i can guarantee you that i've seen myself IBC following Pinna also in high limit soccer markets sometimes.

Pinnacle is the boss in American Sports. The rest just follow.

for AS i think Matchbook is a strong indicator too

As far as I can see matchbook is all automated bots and follows pinnacle and betfair lines.

BOOYAKA wrote:
As far as I can see matchbook is all automated bots and follows pinnacle and betfair lines.

Yeah, Matchbook follows Pinnacle, mostly automated bots.

"When the line moves on a game it always happens first at Pinnacle Sports"
(http://www.pinnaclesports.com/online-betting-articles/09-2012/understanding-market-movement-betting.aspx)

Newbie here. Sorry, I got lost. Is it safe to say that Pinnacle is more effective here?

Arbusers wrote: It is IBCbet and clones moving the lines. The rest just follow.

Out of interest, will you elaborate on that a bit please? How exacly does IBC work?
If dumb q, I am sorry

There is nothing to elaborate. IBC concentrates the biggest volumes. Far bigger than BF's. Also, those who want to bet high, will bet in IBCbet and not Interwetten, or even willhill.

From my experience of trading soccer games prematch for nearly one year now, it goes like this.
SBO & IBC follow each other, only football is relevant sport there. Forget the other sports on these two bookmakers. Their focus is football. Two of the most influential bookmakers worldwide.
Pinnacle follows SBO & IBC on soccer, their lines are most of the time updated after lines in Asia change. This is very important to know. I can not tolerate the promotional bullshit about "line moving first at Pinnacle". It is a big joke! Yeah, sure, they will decide to take their own positions some time but honestly, for the most part they follow Asia.

The other joke is about Betfair influencing Pinnacle and SBO&IBC's odds. Made me chuckle, BF has no influence on them, it is basically gimmicks compared to the volume that these bookmakers get. Simply can't be compared.
Betfair follows SBO for the most part of it and there are some pretty fast( and I mean fast!) people with bots  that react before you even see the change in SBO&IBC websites. Pinnacle has a big influence on Betfair as well, mostly due to their good odds on 1X2. This WC I'd see people backing and laying with stakes of >100.000€ on Betfair markets straight as movement happened in Asia.
And of course, as we all know, Pinnacle is very influential in the other sports, especially so called "US sports" like baseball and basketball. SBO and IBC simply follow them here, it is no big secret but not like anyone cares really!

To give an example of today's match with Brazil vs Netherlands, about 1 hour to kick off, Brazil odds started to drift and went steadily from 2.2 to 2.36 on Betfair, and every time the movement was initiated by SBO, with IBC following right after, and Pinnacle later. Then they started to drop and came to 2.12 on kick off( don't even ask why they were that short ), again all this movement was being initiated by SBOBET first, Pinnacle was always LATE!

That was a good post.

Arbusers wrote: That was a good post.

Thanks mate, trading is a very delicate area of gambling but I prefer it much more than arbing.