Trading sports in an exchange

Pages: [1] 2 3
Author Topic: Trading sports in an exchange  (Read 4945 times)
Arboman
Newbie
*

Karma: -4
Posts: 48


View Profile

Arboman

Trading sports in an exchange
« on: June 18, 2015, 07:00:00 PM »

Hi Everyone , due to getting limited in many of my accounts I decided to look for something more sustainable where betting limits and withdrawals/deposits will not be an issue. I tried trading through betafir and matchbook and tried trading with geekstoy and betangel. The final result is anger and frustration and losing money. This is my advice to anyone even considering this, please use minimum stakes like I did so the loss of money is not a big issue. However the loss of time and frustration is something that stays with you. Do not spend any money or time on this stuff, for me it was a total waste. If it was a goldmine people would not be giving you free trials of this software. For you to win money in that market some of the seasoned betfair pros has to lose it, and that simply is not going to happen. No misleading youtube vidoes will help you in this, I tried this also one year ago and the outcome was the same. This is truning into a hate post so I will quit right here. Bottom line for anyone not involved in this - stick to arbs stay away from trading exchages or the software offered on the market - If someone wants to offer some real value on the subject then they are welcome but I doubt this is going to happen.
Logged
Arbusers
Administrator
Pro
*****

Karma: 316
Posts: 2759



View Profile WWW

Arbusers

Re: Trading sports in an exchange
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2015, 08:16:35 PM »

Trading is far more demanding than arbing. The thing I hate more about trading, is my heart beating at 220 bpm and the agony until my trade is closed. This is the reason why I decided to limit my trading activities as much as possible, even though I was in green grounds.
For those who insist on trading, I have some more comments.
IMO, there is no need using services like bet angel etc. Most of the traders are using them, so you don't have a real tool that would make any difference.
You need a mentor for this. You could do it on your own if you have the guts, but will take time and will require nerves, not to mention the danger of money loss. These mentors are hard to find. Over these last 10 years that I m in this field, I met only 2 real traders that could generate millions and had the kindness to teach others. However, this doesn't mean that these people are still available. One of them, probably the best, told me ''Sit behind me and just watch what I m doing''. The guy knew some tricks that I couldn't understand in front of the pc. I needed to video his actions, analyze them at the comfort of my pc and then implement them on my own.
Tough job indeed.
Logged
whitesnake
Getting better
***

Karma: -1
Posts: 235


View Profile

whitesnake

Re: Trading sports in an exchange
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2015, 02:47:11 PM »

You need a mentor for this. You could do it on your own if you have the guts, but will take time and will require nerves, not to mention the danger of money loss. These mentors are hard to find. Over these last 10 years that I m in this field, I met only 2 real traders that could generate millions and had the kindness to teach others. However, this doesn't mean that these people are still available. One of them, probably the best, told me ''Sit behind me and just watch what I m doing''. The guy knew some tricks that I couldn't understand in front of the pc. I needed to video his actions, analyze them at the comfort of my pc and then implement them on my own.
Tough job indeed.

You mean guys like Paolo Rebelo who charges 500 euro for his course?
Logged
thag
Newbie
*

Karma: -2
Posts: 74


View Profile

thag

Re: Trading sports in an exchange
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2015, 05:00:41 PM »

Hmm. Will be following this...

Been thinking about it as well and just like Max, will be looking at some hybrid forms of trading/arbing (like the lay draw ft). Have some ideas and tried out a few, but still looking to optimize the options..
If you have any tips Max, maybe we can help each other  ;D...
Logged
AUAvi
Newbie
*

Karma: 5
Posts: 10


View Profile

AUAvi

Re: Trading sports in an exchange
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2015, 07:55:20 PM »

Trading on Betfair is my primary income source.It's definitely not easy to make a profit via trading but it's possible if you work on it.It took me about 18 months in order to get my trading strategy to yield consistent profits.I used to make decent money but used to blow it off by chasing losses  and it took me time to control my emotions after a losing trade.You need a decent size bank,need to be disciplined i.e don't chase losses, keep learning from your mistakes.

A trading software isn't necessary but it does make life easier.Personally,i use "Fairbot" since it's the only software that runs on my linux based Laptop.I didn't have a mentor and it probably made it tougher for me since i had to learn everything on my own.I blew my deposits countless times but the work did pay off.

I don't like showing off and i have never posted my P/L screenshots but just to provide some encouragement to the users in this thread,here's my P/L for the last month.



Logged
Bubbles
Getting better
***

Karma: 6
Posts: 272


View Profile

Bubbles

Re: Trading sports in an exchange
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2015, 12:13:57 PM »

My two pennies' worth.

Everything people say about arbing can be said about trading: it's not what it used to be, it's almost dead, it's so much harder for a newbie to start nowadays. It's all true though for different reasons than in arbing. In the past BF markets were full of liquidity (+commission was low) and traders were few and far between. Knowing the basics (those youtube videos) one could enter the market like a fox enters a hen house in the night: wherever it bites there is a chicken. Today liquidity is poor (commission high) and in the markets good for trading one might think there are more traders and bots than (square) punters. That's why they are so difficult to read for a newbie. Following the animal metaphor, he is like a fox entering a hen house in the night to discover that it's full of other foxes and get bitten by them. It doesn't mean that chicken are not there any more but they are much harder to find on top of trying to survive navigating around all those other foxes.

For those you tube videos, they were either made long time ago when market circumstances were different (check the dates when they were first posted) or published by owners/distributors of trading software who want to sell their product. If the latter is the case you have to treat them as advertising rather than instructional videos. It's not very difficult to make trading look easy. All one has to do is record a few trades, throw away those that went pear-shaped and keep the best one. Then record a sound explaining rationale behind your moves and you're ready to publish it and with enough videos made to become a trading guru.

One way some people have to still have an advantage is to find your niche market and become an expert on it. Easier said than done. It means that ideally you should have your own rating and be able to pick a market in which you would be able to foresee price movement (more often correctly than not). Your advantage is that you know more about this one  market than most other punters involved. That's why it has to be a niche market, not a major league football match. This is the only market you trade. Less trades but more confident ones. If you did your homework you will start making money. The homework is what makes a difference and they don't talk about it on youtube. It's lots and lots of work before you even enter the ladders.

@Arboman, there is no question that arbing is much easier than trading. With arbing, especially if you're blessed with friends, you can learn basics and start making money instantly. With trading the learning curve is what AUavi very well described. It takes a lot of determination to keep learning  after 6 , 12 months of losing money especially since there is no guarantee that finally sooner or later you'll make it like he did. That's why it's something one can experiment with only while having other solid source of income that allows one to lose money while learning. It helps if one can enjoy it despite frustration as well.

@ ''Sit behind me and just watch what I m doing'', I'm sorry to put it as vaguely as fellow posters sometimes do but if someone's persistent there are still ways to take at least a peek at the ways the pros do it.
Logged
Arbusers
Administrator
Pro
*****

Karma: 316
Posts: 2759



View Profile WWW

Arbusers

Re: Trading sports in an exchange
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2015, 12:27:49 PM »

In addition to what the other guys said, I must say that there are some markets that offer more opportunities than others.

Basketball (Eurobasket, Euroleague, NBA)
Tennis (WTA, ATP)
Special events (Eurovision, Elections, Olympic games nomination, Oscars)
Soccer
All markets of the Olympic games, European games (like these in Baku), world games etc.
Some more that I know forget

All of them with this order. of course some members might agree with this order, but it depends on everyone's background and available opportunities.
Logged
Bubbles
Getting better
***

Karma: 6
Posts: 272


View Profile

Bubbles

Re: Trading sports in an exchange
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2015, 12:42:58 PM »

Horse racing's a must if one has UAavi skills
Logged
thag
Newbie
*

Karma: -2
Posts: 74


View Profile

thag

Re: Trading sports in an exchange
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2015, 01:05:36 PM »

I don't like showing off and i have never posted my P/L screenshots but just to provide some encouragement to the users in this thread,here's my P/L for the last month.



Is that $57k+ your month profit?  :o
If so, ever thought about becoming a mentor  ;)
Logged
Arbusers
Administrator
Pro
*****

Karma: 316
Posts: 2759



View Profile WWW

Arbusers

Re: Trading sports in an exchange
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2015, 01:33:50 PM »




I would like to see what is under the horse and cricket tabs.
Logged
M@chibist
Newbie
*

Karma: 0
Posts: 22


View Profile

M@chibist

Re: Trading sports in an exchange
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2015, 01:40:33 PM »

As i am trader i can give few thoughts...
Pretty much agree with everything what AUavi and Bubbles said. It is hard hard work but it can be done.
Applications make it easier especially if you are trading inplay.
On the top of everything which is said before i think that psychology is often underestimated. People looking for winning strategies but not developing trading mind.
If you cant control your emotions or taking loses you will never succeed.
For me tennis is number one, movement after every points, almost whole year...lot of people jump on horses and football, really cant understand why not look to other sports.
You need to find out where you can beat all bots and big players. I am not saying that it is easy, it is damn hard and getting harder each day....but often trader it is its biggest enemy.
I have never arbed before but i am considering that as an option and trying to learn new things. I think that those who want will find a way and places like this can give you ideas and opportunities.

Best regards
Logged
AUAvi
Newbie
*

Karma: 5
Posts: 10


View Profile

AUAvi

Re: Trading sports in an exchange
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2015, 02:09:54 PM »

I would like to see what is under the horse and cricket tabs.







I can't do horse racing screens as i have 12 pages of it.Though,i would like to clarify that my average profit from Horse racing is around 15,000$ but this month there was "Royal ascot" so the liquidity was huge and i also had time on my hands since European football leagues were finished.
Logged
AUAvi
Newbie
*

Karma: 5
Posts: 10


View Profile

AUAvi

Re: Trading sports in an exchange
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2015, 02:13:59 PM »

Is that $57k+ your month profit?  :o
If so, ever thought about becoming a mentor  ;)

Yes,it was the monthly profit.

I like trading with my own money and i don't want to take the pressure of mentoring others.
Logged
Arbusers
Administrator
Pro
*****

Karma: 316
Posts: 2759



View Profile WWW

Arbusers

Re: Trading sports in an exchange
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2015, 02:17:01 PM »

AUAvi, thanks for sharing these images and your thoughts with us.
Would you like to tell us something more about the way you operate? Do you use any bots or other services? Do you have any money management rules that you follow? Any martingale's or anything else you would like to share?

Before you go on, I must warn you that sooner or later you will be attacked by other members and your karma will slide down the cliff.
Logged
yorkjoss
Probably a Pro
****

Karma: -42
Posts: 400


View Profile

yorkjoss

Re: Trading sports in an exchange
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2015, 02:24:01 PM »

Is that $57k+ your month profit?  :o
If so, ever thought about becoming a mentor  ;)

Yes,it was the monthly profit.


I like trading with my own money and i don't want to take the pressure of mentoring others.

extremely impressive! can I ask, do you pay PC?
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3
Print