pinnacle voiding winning bets

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ayahuasca
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ayahuasca

pinnacle voiding winning bets
« on: February 14, 2017, 07:56:42 PM »

I was arbing this morning, made some good arbs with pinnacle and for my surprise this afternoon i get several messages announcing my winning bets were voided due to incorrect lines.
I got 3 different games of 3 different leagues voided!
But other games i did on that period, one was the same league as one of the voided, that were lost on pinnacle, those didn't got refunded, i guess it was good lines for them because the bet was a loser.

My question is, can i trust pinnacle again? Right now i think the best decision is to drop them, because there is other good asian bookies and more trustable like sbobet and dafabet.

Is it worth to protest with them or is it useless?  >:(

 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
[Soccer] [Live Malaysia - FA Cup] [1st Half] PKNP FC vs Kelantan. Your bet with ticket-ID: has been refunded. All bets taken have been refunded due to the following reason: [The wager was offered with an incorrect line.] . Thank you!

[Soccer] [Live Algeria - Youth U21 League] [1st Half] MO Bejaia U21 vs USM Alger U21. Your bet with ticket-ID: has been refunded. All bets taken have been refunded due to the following reason: [The wager was offered with an incorrect line.] . Thank you!

[Soccer] [Live Hungary - Cup] [1st Half] Cegledi VSE vs Diosgyor. Your bet with ticket-ID: has been refunded. All bets taken have been refunded due to the following reason: [The wager was offered with an incorrect line.] . Thank you!
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Bridge
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Bridge

Re: pinnacle voiding winning bets
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2017, 08:04:02 PM »

All lines were wrong
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maletaja
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maletaja

Re: pinnacle voiding winning bets
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2017, 06:17:02 AM »

Can u give some facts, not like emotional stuff(pinnacle stole my money!!!!)
How much was that arb?
Seems like you just found serious palps and tried to take advatange of it.
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fnatic91
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fnatic91

Re: pinnacle voiding winning bets
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2017, 08:29:40 AM »

I also got too many voids by pinny (especially in corners) , so i think its better to skip Pinnacle.
There are a lot of other asians , which never void any bet at all and you can go all in without the fear of getting a void.On the other hand , you cant do that at Pinny cause they void very often.

Quote
Seems like you just found serious palps and tried to take advatange of it

So , how do you determine if it is a palp , fix or not ? 
For example :  Chania - Panelefsiniakos over 1.5 @ 2.1 bet365 and under 1.75 @ 2.2 Pinny , you call it a palp ???

Even in those cases where there might be a mistake on their odds , they should take their responsibilties , because aren't they the ones who loud all the time " come here come here , we welcome arbers..come here come here , we will teach you how to do it" , and in the end they void a lot.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 08:31:21 AM by fnatic91 » Logged
maletaja
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maletaja

Re: pinnacle voiding winning bets
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2017, 09:42:28 AM »

Quote
[or example :  Chania - Panelefsiniakos over 1.5 @ 2.1 bet365 and under 1.75 @ 2.2 Pinny , you call it a palp ??? /quote]



2.1 and 2.2 is ordinary surebet for me....funny...and serius then
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fnatic91
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fnatic91

Re: pinnacle voiding winning bets
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2017, 09:48:59 AM »

You forgot to see that half goal middle...over 1.5 vs under 1.75....10% arb with a half goal middle ,  is it still a ordinary arb ???

So , in theory it should be considered palp , but thats not a palp  in reality..

Anyways , imo pinnalce should take their responsibilities and not void any bets at all ,cause they are the ones who loud to us all the time : come , come and arb.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 09:50:52 AM by fnatic91 » Logged
csampion
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Re: pinnacle voiding winning bets
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2017, 10:19:21 AM »

Some of Pinnacle's voids occur when they show incorrect scores during a game. This has happened to me once on corners (even though people on this forum already warned others about checking scores before placing a bet), and of course the wrong side won and Pinnacle refunded the winning bet. This is just how arbing is: you make a mistake, and you always get penalized. I would have learned the lesson even if I had won that particular bet at the other bookie and Pinnacle had refunded the losing bet (let's assume they would do so).
When they display incorrect scores, then it's not just the score that's incorrect, but also the odds are way off the market prices, because odds are calculated automatically based on the score. When this happens, betting usually goes offline for a long time, so this is a sign that something's wrong. So since then, I'm always checking to make sure that the scores displayed are same at pinny, at the soft bookie, and perhaps even sbo or maxbet if the game is offered there. Only when the score is the same at all three bookies do I place a bet. Since then, I've already seen wrong scores happen, so it's a good thing I knew to stay away.
So does this mean that pinny get their scores from a different source than others? Or just a glitch in the system? I would think there is only one source for score updates, but seems otherwise.
And yeah, a 10% "arb" with a 0.25 middle is fishy as hell. There are many more regular (and still high%) arbs around, so why risk these, particularly on shady leagues?
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maletaja
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Re: pinnacle voiding winning bets
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2017, 10:27:02 AM »

ok, i missed that. Then 0.25 goal adds at least 10% value. I dont know but for me we are laying in the zone where i dont feel myself conformably. 15% surebet i dont expect to stay even pinnacle i say 50-50. Of course lot of depends of weak side. If pinnacle are clearly "weak" then i dont expect much. If there are rapid  lines movement and i manage to get 20% arb and there are nothing to do with  pinnacle  lines, then i expect lines to stay
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fnatic91
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Re: pinnacle voiding winning bets
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2017, 11:01:54 AM »

Quote
So since then, I'm always checking to make sure that the scores displayed are same at pinny, at the soft bookie, and perhaps even sbo or maxbet if the game is offered there

I doubt you will ever catch the arb if you go and check pinny/soft/bet365/sbobet one by one.
a lot of cases when bet365 and pinnacle had the same number of corners , but it ended up that both bookies had the wrong number of corners (it seems the same source)..pinny voids , bet365 stands.
 
Quote
Some of Pinnacle's voids occur when they show incorrect scores during a game

I agree that most of the voids are on corner markets due to incorrect score.
But they also void on football matches when the score is right.
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ayahuasca
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Re: pinnacle voiding winning bets
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2017, 12:41:31 PM »

Here is somo more detail
__________________________
Under 1.5
1st Half - 1H Total
PKNP FC -vs- Kelantan

3 small arbs (<100€ total)
average odds
1,77   3,27
__________________________
Under 1.5
1st Half - 1H Total
Cegledi VSE -vs- Diosgyor

1 arb  (100€)
odds
2,04   2,14
__________________________
Under 0.5
1st Half - 1H Total
MO Bejaia U21 -vs- USM Alger U21

12 arbs (700€ total)
1,82 2,69
__________________________

First of all, i want to say i have some years of arbitrage in my back, and i have experience to see palps and when i see them, i stay out, specially if it's pinnacle.

I want to add that pinnacle didn't had any scores wrong at any time of the bets. And the games were not suspended like they use to when there is wrong lines.
The best example is the algerian game where i made a dozen arbs with the odds always behaving normal, i was arbing under on pinnacle and odds keep getting lower each time, so nothing strange here, i've done many many arbs like those on other asians. I saw nothing strange on that.

I don't remember the last time i got a voided bet on an asian bookie, so i'm not chasing palps anytime...

I find it really strange that i got voided in 3 different games on 3 different leagues but the other algerian game i arbed that lost on pinnacle didn't get voided. Just a coincidence?
If pinnacle can void bets easily as this, i don't see any other option then drop pinnacle for good. The risk is not worthy. And besides, pinnacle has been losing influence on my volume of bets. Sbobet and Dafabet get the most volume ahead of pinnacle. So it's not a big loss. But it's sad, i used to have pinnacle as the best bookie in the world.

ps. all live bets
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 02:34:37 PM by ayahuasca » Logged
maletaja
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maletaja

Re: pinnacle voiding winning bets
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2017, 12:55:56 PM »

Everything is changing. I am not suprised when some active manager made proposition to the directors to get extra bonus for his payroll...
We void all small errors and our profit increases 10%!
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csampion
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Re: pinnacle voiding winning bets
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2017, 01:18:29 PM »

Quote
So since then, I'm always checking to make sure that the scores displayed are same at pinny, at the soft bookie, and perhaps even sbo or maxbet if the game is offered there

I doubt you will ever catch the arb if you go and check pinny/soft/bet365/sbobet one by one.
a lot of cases when bet365 and pinnacle had the same number of corners , but it ended up that both bookies had the wrong number of corners (it seems the same source)..pinny voids , bet365 stands.
I do catch them, just need multiple screens and a good layout, and not to rely on alert services.
But I see your point regarding the voiding policies of different books under the same circumstances. I've also had my issues with pinnacle recently, just not in this area (lower limits and higher juice in in-play basketball is my main source of frustration).
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dealer wins
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Re: pinnacle voiding winning bets
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2017, 01:50:29 PM »

Funny how over the years ive had about 30 winning bets voided and I think 2 losing bets voided.

Most of my betting is not live though, and most of the voids are either for palps (Which they were not just a rapidly shortening fav) or for bets placed where the book claimed the bet was placed after the event started (Im looking at you here Pinnacle voiding several bets when the event had definately not started)
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barbero
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Re: pinnacle voiding winning bets
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2017, 12:02:20 AM »

I've only had this happening with incorrect scores as well and certainly those 3 arbs do not look like palps (provided scores were alright).

OK, so here's the thing, like fnatic91 said, it's them who claim to be arbitrage friendly. It's not bet365. It's not other asians, it's not soft bookies. It's pinnacle. So pinnacle, you really need to be consistent with what you pretend to be: just get your stuff together and understand that you cannot void at will, take responsibility for your odds if you are (and we all know you are) the great bookmaker you claim to be. We also all know that thanks to us arbers you constantly rip off soft bookies, through our action, and you also shape your lines. So, since you want to keep this going on, you need to provide us with the safety that bets will stand... I don't think that's all that much to ask from a serious bookie.

Of course no one from pinnacle will be reading this, but it would do good if it could be brought to their attention. It seems to be getting too risky. We are used to being robbed by soft bookies, we don't need pinnacle to do that as well.
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Alfa1234
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Re: pinnacle voiding winning bets
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2017, 09:02:29 AM »

I've never, ever had a bet void by Pinnacle.  It's a matter of common sense most of the time.  As you gain experience you'll be able to tell which is a palp and which odd is genuine. 
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