Matchbook (page 8)

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raizzak
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Re: Matchbook
« Reply #105 on: November 05, 2016, 12:39:24 AM »

I am so fucking amazed on how much you screw up and really good thing.... I'm not talking about matchbook they were bad from the beginning im talking in general about the incredibly bad managed shops. Well it seems if you want to do something right. Do it yourself...
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viking2
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Re: Matchbook
« Reply #106 on: November 12, 2016, 12:22:07 AM »

Can someone here summarize very quickly the changes they made?  So before it was 1 percent commission fee no matter what whether you posted the offer or accepted an offer.  Now its 1.5%?  Or its 1.5% if you accept an offer but 0.75% if someone accepts your offer?


So assuming you always make offer and it gets accepted, this change is better.  But if you accept offers half the time and others accept your offers half the time, then you are paying around 1.13% commission?  And of course if you always accept offers, it cost 1.5 percent.


So basically for almost everyone, this change is bad right?  I mean, are there people that never accept an offer and always make offer which get accepted?  I think this would be very rare right?
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luctens
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Re: Matchbook
« Reply #107 on: November 12, 2016, 01:55:19 AM »

Can someone here summarize very quickly the changes they made?  So before it was 1 percent commission fee no matter what whether you posted the offer or accepted an offer.  Now its 1.5%?  Or its 1.5% if you accept an offer but 0.75% if someone accepts your offer?


So assuming you always make offer and it gets accepted, this change is better.  But if you accept offers half the time and others accept your offers half the time, then you are paying around 1.13% commission?  And of course if you always accept offers, it cost 1.5 percent.


So basically for almost everyone, this change is bad right?  I mean, are there people that never accept an offer and always make offer which get accepted?  I think this would be very rare right?
Before it was 1.00% per bet commission for both bet accepters and bet offerers (1.15% for UK and Ireland residents), so before it was a net win commission equivalent of 2.00% for both bet accepters and bet offerers (2.30% for UK and Ireland residents).

Now it's 1.50% per bet commission for bet accepters (1.70% for UK and Ireland residents) and 0.75% per bet commission for bet offerers (0.85% for UK and Ireland residents), so it is now a net win commission equivalent of 3.00% for bet accepters (3.40% for UK and Ireland residents) and 1.50% for bet offerers (1.70% for UK and Ireland residents).

Yes, basically for almost everyone, this is bad. Of course in theory bet offerers are better off with a lower commission rate, but in reality the vast majority of all exchange users would be bet accepters not bet offerers, so in reality the vast majority of Matchbook's users have been shafted by a 50% increase in their commission.

If Matchbook were really that deluded to think that what they were saying was true in that they think this move will turn loads of their customers from bet accepters to bet offerers and increase their liquidity, they're disastrously wrong. Bet accepters at Matchbook aren't going to change from bet accepters to bet offerers because of this, they will simply stay bet accepters and take their business elsewhere and the exodus of customers from Matchbook will decimate their liquidity.

For the vast majority of their users this will probably have been the absolute final straw for them and they will probably already have or will soon be taking their business elsewhere as a result of this, so this catastrophic move will probably be the final death knell to Matchbook.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2016, 02:11:59 AM by luctens » Logged
viking2
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Re: Matchbook
« Reply #108 on: November 12, 2016, 04:29:48 AM »

Hi thanks for the response.  Yes so that means this is bad for everyone.

This is what is strange.  If there is 0.75% commission if you make these offers and it gets accepted, doesn't it do the complete opposite of what they say?  Thus it would cause more customers to want to make offers instead of accept offers?  In essence, more people would prefer to make offers instead since there is small commission?  The other thing is if you make an offer, then you have to wait till someone accepts your offer.  I mean, are there people that would do that the entire time?  For example, if the odds change against you and your offer is there, then someone will accept your offer but you would get a worst line.  I can't imagine someone posting an offer and then waiting until someone accepts it.

The other thing is this.  When pinnacle moves a line, why does matchbook lines seem to automatically move?  Is it because its bots or something similar?  Because if someone makes an offer on matchbook, then say odds on pinnacle changes, then that person would have to immediately remove their offer assuming the line got worst for them.   And also when someone makes an offer on matchbook, let say the odds on pinnacle changes.  Then this person did not remove their offer on matchbook.  Why does their bet get accepted so quickly by another user?  Are there users that are looking at lines and immediately accepting an offer when pinnacle moves the line?  Because i notice this a lot.  Wouldn't that mean there are bots that accepts offers?   Because i cannot imagine a human being being able to do this.  Thus matchbook offers immediately move when pinnacle line moves etc.  Now if its other books, i understand that because i heard about those things.  But how in the world does that happen on matchbook then?
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dealer wins
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Re: Matchbook
« Reply #109 on: November 12, 2016, 10:06:51 AM »

Matchbook could give betfair a real run for their money if they put their commission rate to 1% net win.   Even 1.5% net win would make them much stronger, but 1% net win would bring in the big boys overnight as Matchbook are safe and trusted, just too expensive and have the stupid pay commission on losing bets, which makes it impossible for traders to trade.
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luctens
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Re: Matchbook
« Reply #110 on: November 12, 2016, 10:52:06 AM »

Hi thanks for the response.  Yes so that means this is bad for everyone.

This is what is strange.  If there is 0.75% commission if you make these offers and it gets accepted, doesn't it do the complete opposite of what they say?  Thus it would cause more customers to want to make offers instead of accept offers?  In essence, more people would prefer to make offers instead since there is small commission?  The other thing is if you make an offer, then you have to wait till someone accepts your offer.  I mean, are there people that would do that the entire time?  For example, if the odds change against you and your offer is there, then someone will accept your offer but you would get a worst line.  I can't imagine someone posting an offer and then waiting until someone accepts it.

The other thing is this.  When pinnacle moves a line, why does matchbook lines seem to automatically move?  Is it because its bots or something similar?  Because if someone makes an offer on matchbook, then say odds on pinnacle changes, then that person would have to immediately remove their offer assuming the line got worst for them.   And also when someone makes an offer on matchbook, let say the odds on pinnacle changes.  Then this person did not remove their offer on matchbook.  Why does their bet get accepted so quickly by another user?  Are there users that are looking at lines and immediately accepting an offer when pinnacle moves the line?  Because i notice this a lot.  Wouldn't that mean there are bots that accepts offers?   Because i cannot imagine a human being being able to do this.  Thus matchbook offers immediately move when pinnacle line moves etc.  Now if its other books, i understand that because i heard about those things.  But how in the world does that happen on matchbook then?
Matchbook seem to think in their deluded world that offering a lower commission for bet offerers than bet accepters that it will automatically mean that it will create a new breed of bet offerers seeing 2.00 and saying no, I'll offer 2.02, and the next person saying I'll offer 2.04 instead and they think that prices and liquidity will get better because of that. It simply just isn't going to happen.

All exchange prices are very uniformed and aren't much different at any one time so it just doesn't work that way that you have offers and re-offers of prices and all the rest of it, there is an exchange market price, and market forces won't allow that price to differ much at all from that market price at that time, so it's the job of the exchange to have as close to a 100% market before commission as possible, and to have the lowest possible commission rate coming off those odds as possible. Those prices wouldn't really change just because a few people come in offering bets as the market prices are the market prices and they won't change, and they especially won't change with a mass exodus of customers from Matchbook. What surely Matchbook know from viewing 16 years of exchange activity is that the only way an exchange is going to work is by the exchange providing the liquidity themselves or outsourcing the job to professional exchange traders. What they seem to think with this move of reducing commission for bet offerers is that loads of individual normal customers are going to act as some of their market makers and providing some of the underlying liquidity and odds, it simply just isn't going to happen, the exchange, nobody else, needs to provide the liquidity and odds themselves.

In theory, even if you had a load of users offering bets then it would create a complete stand-off with everybody wanting to be the one offering bets and not accepting them so they would get the lower commission so it actually creates a disincentive to accept bets as opposed to offering bets, so it creates a stand-off with everybody offering bets and nobody accepting bets. That's in theory though if you had a lot of people fighting it out, but in reality, there won't be loads of people to fight it out because the vast majority will most probably be leaving Matchbook because of this move anyway, so the only effect it will have is to decimate it's user base and liquidity, a completely disastrous move.

The bet offerers would be in the extremely small minority of exchange users, and Matchbook's move isn't going to change that. This is an ever increasingly instant world where everybody wants to do everything at a click of a button and with an exchange, the vast majority of people just want to login, have top dollar prices and liquidity to instantly be available to bet at, and then to place the bet instantly and logoff. The vast majority of exchange users simply wouldn't be bothered to post an offer and wait a few minutes, hours or days for a bet to be matched or not, they simply just can't be bothered with any of that crap.

Matchbook has bots that mirror Pinnacle's odds so any changes in Pinnacle's odds will be reflected on Matchbook. For the vast majority of markets, Matchbook is just Pinnacle's odds less Matchbook's commission coming off Pinnacle's odds as well, so for those markets, you simply cut out the middleman and bet at Pinnacle, and for any of the few markets they had more action in than just mirroring Pinnacle's prices and therefore tighter pricing, their commission hike has well and truly made these markets uncompetitive as well, so with the other exchanges and bookmakers that are available, Matchbook are completely and utterly useless.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2016, 11:09:36 AM by luctens » Logged
luctens
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Re: Matchbook
« Reply #111 on: November 12, 2016, 11:27:47 AM »

Matchbook could give betfair a real run for their money if they put their commission rate to 1% net win.   Even 1.5% net win would make them much stronger, but 1% net win would bring in the big boys overnight as Matchbook are safe and trusted, just too expensive and have the stupid pay commission on losing bets, which makes it impossible for traders to trade.
This is where Matchbook's commission has been going:

Pre-late 2014 - net win commission equivalent of 2.00% for everybody
Late 2014 - 2.30% for UK residents with 2.00% for everybody else
2015 - 2.30% for Irish residents making it 2.30% for UK and Ireland residents with 2.00% for everybody else
2016 - 3.40% for UK and Ireland residents with 3.00% for everybody else (for bet accepters which would be the vast majority of exchange users)

Do you see a trend here?  ::)  Matchbook's commission is only going one way, and that's up. That's up 70% in the last two years for UK and Ireland residents and that's up 50% for everybody else in the last two years. You calling for Matchbook to have 1.00% net win commission is so pie in the sky it's laughable. Matchbook are a busted flush, and every bettor needs to completely forget about them, this latest move has finished them off for good. And I don't know what you mean about Matchbook being safe and trusted like that's a standout thing for them, as all of the current exchanges are safe and trusted, the issue with the current exchanges isn't who is safe and trusted, as they all are, the issue is which exchange provides the best deal for the customer. Matchbook's commission is only going up, so there's no way they're ever going to go to 1.00% net win commission or anywhere even close for that matter, in fact with their current trajectory the most likely move for them if there are any further moves left for them before they're out of business for good, would be to increase their commission even further, so there's absolutely no point whatsoever of you even thinking about Matchbook getting anywhere near 1.00% net win commission, as it simply isn't going to happen. The only exchange that is working towards this is Smarkets, who are working towards an under 1.00% net win commission rate.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2016, 12:01:21 PM by luctens » Logged
MaxShalamar
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Re: Matchbook
« Reply #112 on: November 12, 2016, 12:08:44 PM »

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Arbusers
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Re: Matchbook
« Reply #113 on: November 13, 2016, 09:13:41 PM »

Matchbook is offering lower commission rates to bigger players. I doubt that any price change is equal to everyone.
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Ingarb3
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Re: Matchbook
« Reply #114 on: November 13, 2016, 10:16:57 PM »

I wonder if that means they might be able to take on the almighty Smarkets after all?  ;D ;D
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luctens
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Re: Matchbook
« Reply #115 on: November 14, 2016, 05:33:11 PM »

I wonder if that means they might be able to take on the almighty Smarkets after all?  ;D ;D
No chance. Matchbook are toast.
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Skaggerak
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Re: Matchbook
« Reply #116 on: November 27, 2016, 08:48:46 AM »

I tried one horse racing lay with them last week, for some reason whenever I get involved with them on a busy moving market there are always glitches, so I won't be using horse racing with them in the meantime. I will probably end up up taking most of my balance elsewhere as the only edge I had with them over recent time was decent pre-match action they had offered which I managed to scrape something off of at the time, they seem to have tightened that up now. Maybe it's a measure of how my own activity has changed or slowed but in the last month I've only had 4 meaningful stakes with them, one which involved a major error on their part, so I think it's fair to say they've fallen out of shape a lot.

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Skaggerak
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Re: Matchbook
« Reply #117 on: December 04, 2016, 10:02:12 AM »

Just placed 30 with 800 in a market pre-match and it matched in two segments, that tell's me there was a split second when money was removed from the market or else why would it need to have been matched twice. I think Matchbook is definitely unreliable in-play now unless you're straight value-betting with them.
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viking2
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Re: Matchbook
« Reply #118 on: March 07, 2017, 06:10:15 AM »

Im curious but does matchbook still have that hidden charge commission if you don't wager X amount of your deposit?


Also most of the offers you see on matchbook are from them right?  Thus seeded by their traders?  Heard this a while back.  So basically not much traders there at all?
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