If you transfer the money to switzerland it also depends on which administrative area you live in. If you look for an official answer, go to a specialized lawyer in Switzerland work out a scheme, and than ask the tax administration in your area about it. Expect this to take some time.
What I would do in real life would depend on a lot of factors. How much money are we talking about, how sustainable is your approach? What is the connection to your co-workers?
Making a system like this bullet proof from a legal point costs a lot of money even more in switzerland as you might know. Any specific reason to do this operation from switzerland?
A gambling syndicate
- campeones
- To become a Pro
Post
The third parties, or the runners, or called them as you prefer, will still provide their services and their work. The taxman will likely consider them as employees and every profit they generate no matter what the form will be, will be considered as taxable. It really makes no difference if they receive a salary or bet winnings.
Re: A gambling syndicate
bankster wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:30 amLet's suppose that I provide the capital and all the guidance to the runners (third party). I clearly give specific directions on how and when to bet. In return, I pay this third party a percentage (i.e 15%) of the winnings that came from the provided work and resources. What is the status of the third party? Again, being physically located in the UK means that I have no tax obligation, but the question remains, what if I m located in Switzerland?
The third parties, or the runners, or called them as you prefer, will still provide their services and their work. The taxman will likely consider them as employees and every profit they generate no matter what the form will be, will be considered as taxable. It really makes no difference if they receive a salary or bet winnings.
- arbusers
- Administrator
- Contact:
Post
I believe a large portion of his problems will be efficiently solved by choosing correctly his tax residency. Most of European countries will consider a tax residency the place where you spend more than 186 days per year.
And of course you are correct with what you say, because for everyone it all comes down to what profit is generated and how much of these profit will be handed to experts to create the ''scheme''. But at the same time it is not a nice feeling being cash only.
Re: A gambling syndicate
Pi Bet wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:59 amIf you transfer the money to switzerland it also depends on which administrative area you live in. If you look for an official answer, go to a specialized lawyer in Switzerland work out a scheme, and than ask the tax administration in your area about it. Expect this to take some time.
What I would do in real life would depend on a lot of factors. How much money are we talking about, how sustainable is your approach? What is the connection to your co-workers?
Making a system like this bullet proof from a legal point costs a lot of money even more in switzerland as you might know. Any specific reason to do this operation from switzerland?
I believe a large portion of his problems will be efficiently solved by choosing correctly his tax residency. Most of European countries will consider a tax residency the place where you spend more than 186 days per year.
And of course you are correct with what you say, because for everyone it all comes down to what profit is generated and how much of these profit will be handed to experts to create the ''scheme''. But at the same time it is not a nice feeling being cash only.
- bankster
- Gaining experience
Post
Thank you for the advise.
The only reason I might do this from Switzerland is because I find my self living in the country. But this year I m sharing my time between Switzerland and the UK and I m still not sure where the 186 days will be. Not a Swiss my self.
@Campeones
Thank you once again for your advise. The reason why I care that much for the runners is because they are friends and relatives. These are people I know. And this is why I am looking for a solution that would not put them in any kind of risk.
If I am allowed, this is the next trick I m thinking of:
Let's suppose that we share the capital used in this venture at a 50/50 basis. I will provide the guidance like before. Is this changing anything in the scenario? I mean, in this scenario they too gamble like me, what is the difference if they go to the shop instead of me?
Thank you.
Re: A gambling syndicate
Pi Bet wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:59 amIf you transfer the money to switzerland it also depends on which administrative area you live in. If you look for an official answer, go to a specialized lawyer in Switzerland work out a scheme, and than ask the tax administration in your area about it. Expect this to take some time.
What I would do in real life would depend on a lot of factors. How much money are we talking about, how sustainable is your approach? What is the connection to your co-workers?
Making a system like this bullet proof from a legal point costs a lot of money even more in switzerland as you might know. Any specific reason to do this operation from switzerland?
Thank you for the advise.
The only reason I might do this from Switzerland is because I find my self living in the country. But this year I m sharing my time between Switzerland and the UK and I m still not sure where the 186 days will be. Not a Swiss my self.
@Campeones
Thank you once again for your advise. The reason why I care that much for the runners is because they are friends and relatives. These are people I know. And this is why I am looking for a solution that would not put them in any kind of risk.
If I am allowed, this is the next trick I m thinking of:
Let's suppose that we share the capital used in this venture at a 50/50 basis. I will provide the guidance like before. Is this changing anything in the scenario? I mean, in this scenario they too gamble like me, what is the difference if they go to the shop instead of me?
Thank you.
- Pi Bet
- Gaining experience
Post
Re: A gambling syndicate
I make a suggestion here, but I have to make some assumptions. As you say your operation is only with relatives and close friends it shouldnt be too big. If I remember it right, the syndicate campeones is working for is an international operating entity with "runners" in many countries and no personal relationship to these people. I believe we talk many millions a year here. With a pocket, this deep get all the lawyers you can get on board. It's a totally different game.
If your only partners are relatives and close friends (all in the UK?). Why do you need a contract at all? Give them betting suggestions and if they win, they should be kind enough to give a you gift out of their winnings. It's a win-win. This should be legally fine. They make casual bets, they win, and they make you a gift. If you like it a bit more "shady", let them buy a new car (if you need one) that is still their car, but you use it. But - although obvious what's going on - this is still also no problem from a legal point of view. Depending on how close they are (parents, sisters, etc) you can look up what the taxation for such a gift is in your area. So all parties will be on the safe side. Avoid transactions between the parties, only from them to you. Don't bet yourself. This is a very simple solution and should work without any problems within reasonable amounts.
I'm really interested in how your story develops Good luck to you.
If your only partners are relatives and close friends (all in the UK?). Why do you need a contract at all? Give them betting suggestions and if they win, they should be kind enough to give a you gift out of their winnings. It's a win-win. This should be legally fine. They make casual bets, they win, and they make you a gift. If you like it a bit more "shady", let them buy a new car (if you need one) that is still their car, but you use it. But - although obvious what's going on - this is still also no problem from a legal point of view. Depending on how close they are (parents, sisters, etc) you can look up what the taxation for such a gift is in your area. So all parties will be on the safe side. Avoid transactions between the parties, only from them to you. Don't bet yourself. This is a very simple solution and should work without any problems within reasonable amounts.
I'm really interested in how your story develops Good luck to you.
- thomas wilson
- Gaining experience
Post
Re: A gambling syndicate
are you for real Bankster? you have this plan? you have relatives in the UK patiently waiting for you to begin your plan but first you must ask an online forum how best to proceed? guys who run gambling syndicates don't come on to a forum and ask how to proceed, they are already very smart and "clued up", this is not how you come across bankster to me with so many questions a guy like you should already know the answers to.....your "family/friends" who you worry about paying tax are not going to get many bets on in shops and almost everything over £100 and sometimes less will get phoned to a trader and many times refused or offered at lower odds and quite quickly they'd get banned from the bookmakers anyway if all they every bet was "value",
if you run a gambling syndicate in the UK as a "business" then you and all your runners are liable to pay tax but the likeliehood of the tax man every catching up with you or them is very small and they'd probably only find out if someone were to explain to them what you were doing, the uk "inland revenue" are understaffed and would need to be "tipped off" about your operation
I have many years in this business, I know about "runners", I know about "tax" and I know about "value" and I definitely know (through experience) what I'm talking about
if you run a gambling syndicate in the UK as a "business" then you and all your runners are liable to pay tax but the likeliehood of the tax man every catching up with you or them is very small and they'd probably only find out if someone were to explain to them what you were doing, the uk "inland revenue" are understaffed and would need to be "tipped off" about your operation
I have many years in this business, I know about "runners", I know about "tax" and I know about "value" and I definitely know (through experience) what I'm talking about
- campeones
- To become a Pro
Post
And as previously said from someone else, maybe the taxman is busy these days, but you never know hat happens tomorrow. I m sure you read the US govt hiring 87.000 IRS agents. Do you think they hire them to go after the 100-120 multibillionaires? Of course not, these are hired for the smaller fishes.
Re: A gambling syndicate
Let's not play with words. I am sure the taxman will be irritated by a scheme like that. In his shoes I would think that someone is fooling me. He would conclude your runners are providing a service and they are getting paid for that service no matter what the fee structure is. Your runners will still have to pay tax.bankster wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:52 pmLet's suppose that we share the capital used in this venture at a 50/50 basis. I will provide the guidance like before. Is this changing anything in the scenario? I mean, in this scenario they too gamble like me, what is the difference if they go to the shop instead of me?
Thank you.
And as previously said from someone else, maybe the taxman is busy these days, but you never know hat happens tomorrow. I m sure you read the US govt hiring 87.000 IRS agents. Do you think they hire them to go after the 100-120 multibillionaires? Of course not, these are hired for the smaller fishes.
- betto88t
- Gaining experience
Post
Re: A gambling syndicate
@campeones it would be interesting to understand or see if you have the qualifications to collaborate. cmq a really interesting topic and stimolnate those who manage to break down the limits in some fields and adapt to make profits. I am sure that my country offers excellent profits for your committee.
- ex-hft
- Has experience
Post
I, for example, have a signal which is consistently profitable versus pinnacle at the kickoff (over tens of thousands of actual bets), but is constrained by the liquidity of the leagues that I bet on - so such a collaboration would be ideal for me.
But it doesn’t seem like this forum allows me to find collaborators.
Re: A gambling syndicate
I must be missing something, because I never understand these “let’s collaborate” posts - it’s not actually possible to get in touch through the forum, is it?betto88t wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:35 pm@campeones it would be interesting to understand or see if you have the qualifications to collaborate. cmq a really interesting topic and stimolnate those who manage to break down the limits in some fields and adapt to make profits. I am sure that my country offers excellent profits for your committee.
I, for example, have a signal which is consistently profitable versus pinnacle at the kickoff (over tens of thousands of actual bets), but is constrained by the liquidity of the leagues that I bet on - so such a collaboration would be ideal for me.
But it doesn’t seem like this forum allows me to find collaborators.
- betto88t
- Gaining experience
Post
Re: A gambling syndicate
using the translator maybe some message is interpreted badly, I don't think on the forum you can not get in touch between users (and I also see it as a right thing) I would have many questions to the user in question to ask, in the previous messages there and who has advised against all user to continue was an inspiration to me this topic. You did not understand what you are talking about sorry, same type of operation of the user in question?ex-hft wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:04 amI must be missing something, because I never understand these “let’s collaborate” posts - it’s not actually possible to get in touch through the forum, is it?betto88t wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:35 pm@campeones it would be interesting to understand or see if you have the qualifications to collaborate. cmq a really interesting topic and stimolnate those who manage to break down the limits in some fields and adapt to make profits. I am sure that my country offers excellent profits for your committee.
I, for example, have a signal which is consistently profitable versus pinnacle at the kickoff (over tens of thousands of actual bets), but is constrained by the liquidity of the leagues that I bet on - so such a collaboration would be ideal for me.
But it doesn’t seem like this forum allows me to find collaborators.
- ex-hft
- Has experience
Post
I don’t have an operation. I just bet at Pinnacle and Molly, and since I make money there, I’m curious about collaborating with other existing operations- as long as they’re legal.
I don’t think that it’s possible to contact other members of the forum.
Re: A gambling syndicate
betto88t wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:43 amusing the translator maybe some message is interpreted badly, I don't think on the forum you can not get in touch between users (and I also see it as a right thing) I would have many questions to the user in question to ask, in the previous messages there and who has advised against all user to continue was an inspiration to me this topic. You did not understand what you are talking about sorry, same type of operation of the user in question?ex-hft wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:04 amI must be missing something, because I never understand these “let’s collaborate” posts - it’s not actually possible to get in touch through the forum, is it?betto88t wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:35 pm@campeones it would be interesting to understand or see if you have the qualifications to collaborate. cmq a really interesting topic and stimolnate those who manage to break down the limits in some fields and adapt to make profits. I am sure that my country offers excellent profits for your committee.
I, for example, have a signal which is consistently profitable versus pinnacle at the kickoff (over tens of thousands of actual bets), but is constrained by the liquidity of the leagues that I bet on - so such a collaboration would be ideal for me.
But it doesn’t seem like this forum allows me to find collaborators.
I don’t have an operation. I just bet at Pinnacle and Molly, and since I make money there, I’m curious about collaborating with other existing operations- as long as they’re legal.
I don’t think that it’s possible to contact other members of the forum.
- freaked
- Has experience
Post
Re: A gambling syndicate
Has anybody here expanded outside collaborating with trusted circles, and if so how did you manage this?
Do we have a term we use here when referring to those we collaborate with?
Do we have a term we use here when referring to those we collaborate with?
- arbusers
- Administrator
- Contact:
Post
You question is very broad. But from what I hear a lot of syndicates and well organised individuals are signing contracts with people that provide resources. Depending on where operations take place, these contracts are covering a wide range of issues to protect all parties from various dangers.
I understand what the nature of this work is and I know with certainty there are many fraudsters in these business. Also, there are people with little understanding of what ''honour'' and ''word'' is. Some time signing a contract might not be possible and you should take someone's word as a contract. In a case like this, the smart bettor should not allow any balance going above individually comfort levels, if you know what I mean. This of course includes people that sat down at the same table for dinner, and cross kissed you whenever they met you. Just treat them the same way you treat a Skrill, an Orbit, or a Pinnacle account. Never hold more funds with them, than those needed for everyday's operation.
And if you are looking for a term to describe them, this could be anything between clients and associates.
Re: A gambling syndicate
You question is very broad. But from what I hear a lot of syndicates and well organised individuals are signing contracts with people that provide resources. Depending on where operations take place, these contracts are covering a wide range of issues to protect all parties from various dangers.
I understand what the nature of this work is and I know with certainty there are many fraudsters in these business. Also, there are people with little understanding of what ''honour'' and ''word'' is. Some time signing a contract might not be possible and you should take someone's word as a contract. In a case like this, the smart bettor should not allow any balance going above individually comfort levels, if you know what I mean. This of course includes people that sat down at the same table for dinner, and cross kissed you whenever they met you. Just treat them the same way you treat a Skrill, an Orbit, or a Pinnacle account. Never hold more funds with them, than those needed for everyday's operation.
And if you are looking for a term to describe them, this could be anything between clients and associates.
- Kreon
- Gaining experience
- thomas wilson
- Gaining experience
Post
for me arbing was a solitairy job and my results were improved a lot from collaborating with others, guys I never met ever in person.
Re: A gambling syndicate
yes I have, I used guys from Greece for many years who Betfair provided with many Betfair accounts (2% comm') for their use, who would then find clients like me and take a large portion of the action (leverage) in the hope I'd have a losing betfair account, the guys I worked with were all Gentlemen, sometime they'd owe me many £k's sometimes I'd owe them similar but never had an issue with payments ever, even though everything was all based on trust.
for me arbing was a solitairy job and my results were improved a lot from collaborating with others, guys I never met ever in person.