Arbusers

cigo wrote: I never look into casino games how to beat tham.  But like i know the only game you can beat online casino is poker. Of course with affiliate abuse you can beat tham on any game. I asume if you beat online casinos, you beat tham in poker or with welcome bonuses, and you play punto blanco(of few other games wher casino have low advantage) wher the loses are very low on long term. But I asume you dont know this thinks

As I said in my introduction we do not use poker and we only stay within betting and casino spheres. It is not me who decides the strategy. Our strategists have their criteria. I am sure there are 100s of casino games that can be beaten with advantage play. To make things clear, no game can be beaten without a bonus. You must calculate the value of each bonus and then see if you can have a profit in the long run.
We dont do affiliate abuse. I know some people made millions from it back in the days but I believe this is not possible anymore as casinos are able to spot it and even combine information from various platform.

Wolfie wrote: @campeones Does most of your betting profit come from online betting or from shop betting ?

Now that is a good question. On average online action represents a bigger share of our profits. But this is not the case for every country. For example, there are countries where 100% of profits come from online action, and there are other countries where 100% comes from offline. Other countries are somewhere in the middle. More on that when I start posting about individual countries and the way we work there.

Camma23 wrote: @campeones how will the company cope with (obvious) account limitations ?
I think every smart bettor must face it at some point, unless your action is only via Asian agents, but if I got well your business this is not the case 

Yes, we have a problem with account limitations, but not at the same level like retail arbers and bonus hunters. Depending on several factors our accounts live for years and years and they keep making money month by month. Of course there will be a day when some accounts will be limited or completely closed. In these cases we replace it with another. Our betting with agents is limited and probably there will not be any after a couple of years. Agents are only needed when you are arbing. We don't use agents for value betting, we are not pushing bets of other people, we are not dependent on them.

CharlieSheen99 wrote: It's a reality that cooperation between more and more people is what is needed to jump to a level that others can't.

Exactly.

ex-hft wrote: I thought that the main problem with writing a poker bot is that it is against the TOS of most (all?) poker sites, and you end up kicked out.
Isn't it so?

Now read this carefully. Yes, the bookmakers have the right to refuse providing service. They can kick you whenever they want. We have seen the Spanish case but this is a hybrid and we dont know how it ended. But, TOS, T&Cs or anything else no matter how you call it, is not above the law of any country. In some countries by clicking the box saying accept it is like signing a contract. But in some other countries no electronic contracts are recognised by the law. And the only contracts with legal power are those signed in paper between parties. In these countries any TOS or T&Cs have absolutely no value. The bookmakers know this and they are very careful with these countries. And that is one of the reasons why accounts from country A are restricted after 2 bets, while accounts from country B who bet at the same 2 bets are free to continue.

Do you buy accounts from random people for your online activities? If the answer is yes, how do you make sure you act within legal frames?
What is the scheme that you use for the offline action? I tried to think of a possible solution but no luck here.

Goojybooboo wrote: Do you buy accounts from random people for your online activities? If the answer is yes, how do you make sure you act within legal frames?
What is the scheme that you use for the offline action? I tried to think of a possible solution but no luck here.

It's not illegal to make agreements about profit sharing bookmaker accounts. No different than staking in poker.

Goojybooboo wrote: Do you buy accounts from random people for your online activities? If the answer is yes, how do you make sure you act within legal frames?
What is the scheme that you use for the offline action? I tried to think of a possible solution but no luck here.

We don't use the words buy accounts, because we dont. We cooperate with people.
So, for every country where we work on line, we sign a contract with the account owners. The contract describes the kind of help that we will give to the owner and the way that we share the profits. The account owner registers all the accounts and he deposits the money. We do not take over of any of his accounts. We then offer the software we believe he needs. The software requires minimal human intervention to an extend where we can say the account is on the autopilot.
We have a small playbook describing what the account owner should do, when to withdraw the money etc. When profits accumulate we share them. There are some cases where we believe the account owner will not pay us. In these cases we request to get paid in advance.

Now I will speak about BetBurger. The alert service that we learn to love and hate. We are convinced BetBurger is something much bigger than the alert service. They have the ability to spot new opportunities for profit. So when we see BetBurger adding a new bookmaker from a country that you can't spot on the map, that means there is a good reason they add it. Being Euro-centric or UK-centric will not help in these business. When BetBurger started adding African bookmakers we knew there was something to be explored. This is how we started our business in Nigeria, Kenya and Uganda. Our African business represent a tiny part of our business. But this is a profit we can't ignore. Except these 3 countries, there is a 4th one in Africa that I don't want to mention to avoid competition. It is not only BetBurger that shows the way. When you see reputable bookmakers from the UK starting business in an African country, that means they know something and we must find out what this something is. Ever wonder why all these Russian bookmakers are active in Africa?

So, it is not only the online action, because there are real betting shops on the street in some of these counties. The odds are sleeping and they don't change very fast. So we have people betting in these shops. We send them a text message in their phone and they place the bet in the shops. Most of them are humpin around these shops because they see our business as their business. So within a couple of minutes they place our bets. When profit accumulate we once again share them.

I hope what I say makes sense to you and can explain how to work legally on a bigger scale. I will continue with other countries in my next post. If you have questions let me know.

campeones wrote:

Goojybooboo wrote: Do you buy accounts from random people for your online activities? If the answer is yes, how do you make sure you act within legal frames?
What is the scheme that you use for the offline action? I tried to think of a possible solution but no luck here.

We then offer the software we believe he needs. The software requires minimal human intervention to an extend where we can say the account is on the autopilot.

You only arbing between those accounts or you place normal value bets as well?

campeones wrote:
So, it is not only the online action, because there are real betting shops on the street in some of these counties. The odds are sleeping and they don't change very fast. So we have people betting in these shops. We send them a text message in their phone and they place the bet in the shops. Most of them are humpin around these shops because they see our business as their business. So within a couple of minutes they place our bets. When profit accumulate we once again share them.

I hope what I say makes sense to you and can explain how to work legally on a bigger scale. I will continue with other countries in my next post. If you have questions let me know.

There are two parameters that you have to take in mind to do sharbing in African countries:

1) Confidence.
2) Security of the runner.

How do you manage this two variables?

Other question:

How are the limits there?

I mean, how much is your average bet?

Fascinating topic Campeones. What I find particularly inspiring is the number of countries you are operating in.

I run my own syndicate in my own country. We are cutting edge in terms of technology and automation. In addition we operate within our own proprietary plays which are based on bespoke algorithms and unique data.

We are confident that many of out plays are unique to us, although we do also bet using the market data as is increasingly prevalent.

We did attempt to begin operations in another country by partnering with contacts there. But running a syndicate takes very high levels of organisation, determination, and networking to make it succeed. Our partners were unable to work to the standards that were necessary to make the project flourish and ultimately our attempt to expand into another country failed.

We haven't given up though, and we are already in discussions with varous parties and we hope to find the right people.

campeones wrote: there is a 4th one in Africa that I don't want to mention to avoid competition.

My guess would be Tanzania. No need to deny or confirm it.

What is the name of the syndicate?

arbusers wrote:

campeones wrote: there is a 4th one in Africa that I don't want to mention to avoid competition.

My guess would be Tanzania. No need to deny or confirm it.

My bet would be on Ghana

x-casino wrote: What is the name of the syndicate?

My guess is that he will not reveal the name.

Arbusers can start a pool on the 4th African country. It will be fun and might offer some insight

Sandica9 wrote: Arbusers can start a pool on the 4th African country. It will be fun and might offer some insight

OK, I started a poll, choices are Tanzania, Ghana, Other. If you have more names on countries let me know.
The reason why I choose Tanzania is because I know the Russian's are there.

I have info about Tanzania online it's a joke. Ridiculously low limits. Maybe shops are more lucrative

Hello to all. I will quickly answer to your questions and comments.

apoel81 wrote: You only arbing between those accounts or you place normal value bets as well?

We only do value betting in Africa and we are experimenting with casino playing to add more value. The arbing that we do is limited and it is not in Africa. I might tell you at a later post which country is perfect for arbing. You will be surprised.

CharlieSheen99 wrote: There are two parameters that you have to take in mind to do sharbing in African countries:

1) Confidence.
2) Security of the runner.

How do you manage this two variables?

Other question:

How are the limits there?

I mean, how much is your average bet?

This is not only for Africa. Believe me, there are unreliable people everywhere and that includes the UK and Europe. My opinion is that the % of unreliable people in every country is more or less the same. There are some exceptions though. We tried to start business in some countries only to find out that unreliability is their national sport. Corruption and scam was all over, in bookmakers, lawyers and people who would work with us. When we see this kind of countries, we always leave them alone and we move to the next country. Some people get offended so I will not name the countries with unreliable people. But I ve noticed there are 2 types of unreliability. It is unreliability coming from being poor and unreliability coming from being... unreliable. Whatever it is we prefer to avoid both types.
But it is inevitable and some times we work with people who in the end turn out to be scams. Our business model is not allowing people to hold our money for long. When our associates find out that our business model works very well they understand they will too make money with us for the years to come. It will be stupid to take the profits of a month and run with it and lose the profits of 3 to 5 years. Yes we had people who did that but stupidity is another thing. So to answer your question I will tell you that a Nigerian associate will make 400 dollars in a month and at the end of the month he will have to pay our %. It is easy for him to understand that he will make more money by working with us in the long run. It makes no sense to keep our money and go. When we see someone delaying a payment then we understand he is up to something and we immediately stop cooperation with him until he pays. But don't forget we have contracts in place and we will go to a court with them if needed. But it is not needed all people understand it is not needed.
I have no idea about the average bet. This is not my field. Limits in Africa are smaller than Europe and the Americas. We easily place bets of 100$ in champions league games. But the majority of profits come of 5$ bets in smaller markets CS/OU and bets like these that no one pays real attention.

Lowe wrote: We did attempt to begin operations in another country by partnering with contacts there. But running a syndicate takes very high levels of organisation, determination, and networking to make it succeed. Our partners were unable to work to the standards that were necessary to make the project flourish and ultimately our attempt to expand into another country failed.

You are correct. Look at this forum. There are 1000s of people who know the ropes and some of them are more talented than our traders and developers. But what they don't have is the ability to organise something on a bigger scale. Most people work with friends and family, then they jump to the town level and only a small number will go to the national level. But how many become international players? I guess only the so called locusts are international players. My friend Balls Of Steele calls me a locust. Maybe there are some similarities in what we do but we are on the legal side of the business.

CharlieSheen99 wrote: My guess is that he will not reveal the name.

That is the correct guess. Our company has a name but there is no need speaking about it. Our associates don't know the name of the company either as they have to sign a contract with the local head. Maybe one day I will speak about the local heads.