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BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100

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javiersuka
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100

Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:53 pm

its not so easy for third party to understand what happened. takes time to understand. Why dont you get in touch with their licensing operator Curacao Gaming to explain your position and let them mediate between the two of you ?

all the posting on this forum may warn other customers to stay away but might not help your case so much.
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axelT
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100

Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:01 pm

AlfCom8282323456 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:17 pm
I am sharing the email they replied to me after I sent one earlier today:

Dear Mr Pinar,


As you have already been informed, you engaged in the violation of the game rules which is completely against the Terms and Conditions of Kingfair24 platform and our Company rules too. Therefore, your account will be permanently closed.

No additional deposits or withdrawals will be accepted from your account, which will be permanently closed. Also due to the fact that you violated T&Cs the funds have been deducted from your account and won't be refunded.This is also stated in our Terms and Conditions:

3.10. You must not either attempt to manipulate any market or element within the Service in bad faith nor in a manner that adversely affects the integrity of the Service or us.

6.3. We may close or suspend an Account if you are not or we reasonably believe that you are not complying with these Terms, or to ensure the integrity or fairness of the Service or if we have other reasonable grounds to do so. We may not always be able to give you prior notice. If we close or suspend your Account due to you not complying with these Terms, we may cancel and/or void any of your bets and withhold any money in your account (including the deposit).

Although, we are not obliged in cases of fund passing and in any kind of odds manipulation to give exact examples we can provide you with just 2 bet ids.(349593571131 349593389250)

Image

https://ibb.co/5G4Y60N

Horse

https://files.fm/u/z4q4c65vz5

According to the image, the race starts at 7:00 PM. I place a Back bet at odds of @11 at 6:59 PM prior to the race, and I always place the Lay bet before the race at odds of @5, as you can see in the image. Watching the course of the race, my Lay bet at odds of @5 is matched at 7:01 PM, and as you can see in the video, horse No. 7, Sea Stream, is leading the race until the last stretch. It seemed like a strong candidate to finish in a good position, possibly even winning, and they are accusing me of manipulating the race. Therefore, my account is permanently blocked without any option to appeal. This is why I want to justify that I did not manipulate anything or commit the said infraction. The only thing I need to find out is how much the odds for that horse dropped to. If someone can tell me where I can find this information, it would be very helpful.
https://www.racing-bet-data.com -- I had a subscription for this service few years ago when I was still trying to figure out horse racing trading. If I remember correctly, their data sheets include info for the opening, starting and in-play odds for all horses
javiersuka
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100

Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:36 pm

A Brokerstorm representative used to post on this forum in the past ( and other forums too ) and provide his side of explanation towards disputes/ allegations raised by various users.

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=12021

Here, is the profile of Brokerstorm representative. Its always good to have a representative from a Bookmaker to be present on a forum such as this so that everyone can see arguments put forward by both parties and judge the fairness of the decision taken by the bookmaker. Also helps the Bookmakers in gaining more trust from potential customers. I hope Brokerstorm return and justify the decision they have taken.
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axelT
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100

Wed Jun 12, 2024 4:25 pm

AlfCom8282323456 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:17 pm
I am sharing the email they replied to me after I sent one earlier today:

Dear Mr Pinar,


As you have already been informed, you engaged in the violation of the game rules which is completely against the Terms and Conditions of Kingfair24 platform and our Company rules too. Therefore, your account will be permanently closed.

No additional deposits or withdrawals will be accepted from your account, which will be permanently closed. Also due to the fact that you violated T&Cs the funds have been deducted from your account and won't be refunded.This is also stated in our Terms and Conditions:

3.10. You must not either attempt to manipulate any market or element within the Service in bad faith nor in a manner that adversely affects the integrity of the Service or us.

6.3. We may close or suspend an Account if you are not or we reasonably believe that you are not complying with these Terms, or to ensure the integrity or fairness of the Service or if we have other reasonable grounds to do so. We may not always be able to give you prior notice. If we close or suspend your Account due to you not complying with these Terms, we may cancel and/or void any of your bets and withhold any money in your account (including the deposit).

Although, we are not obliged in cases of fund passing and in any kind of odds manipulation to give exact examples we can provide you with just 2 bet ids.(349593571131 349593389250)

Image

https://ibb.co/5G4Y60N

Horse

https://files.fm/u/z4q4c65vz5

According to the image, the race starts at 7:00 PM. I place a Back bet at odds of @11 at 6:59 PM prior to the race, and I always place the Lay bet before the race at odds of @5, as you can see in the image. Watching the course of the race, my Lay bet at odds of @5 is matched at 7:01 PM, and as you can see in the video, horse No. 7, Sea Stream, is leading the race until the last stretch. It seemed like a strong candidate to finish in a good position, possibly even winning, and they are accusing me of manipulating the race. Therefore, my account is permanently blocked without any option to appeal. This is why I want to justify that I did not manipulate anything or commit the said infraction. The only thing I need to find out is how much the odds for that horse dropped to. If someone can tell me where I can find this information, it would be very helpful.
I found out some information about this race. It is strange that your bet was matched at @5. Here it is https://imgur.com/a/YGzkmg7
I dont know what kind of exchange KingFair is and who provides the liquidity for it, but a friend of mine who is a professional horse racing trader from the UK told me that there is no way this horse was matched at odds of 5.00 in-play on betfair. I am currently facing similar problem with another big Broker (not going to say anything for now). People get good odds on these white label exchanges and then get accused of being frauds... this is highly unprofessional and very questionable behavior. Every time you see good odds you should be worried about taking it because you can end up with a suspended account and all your funds confiscated. Ridiculous.
tomipraikkonen
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100

Wed Jun 12, 2024 9:55 pm

As @axeIT said https://www.racing-bet-data.com/ can show you BSP and in play odds movement
AlfCom8282323456
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100

Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:36 am

Well, seeing the race, it is likely that the odds dropped below @5, but if you are telling me that horse didn't match the odds at @5 and supposedly KingFair24 is driven by Betfair, then where does that leave me? I would like to know how low that horse's odds dropped and get that data because it would be very interesting for my justification, which I still insist does not break any rules. If you could give me the extract of all my horse bets, they are always the same: I buy high odds for a horse and always set the LAY below odds @6 and all before the race starts. I hope for help with that horse's odds to see how low they went LIVE.
AlfCom8282323456
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100

Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:49 am

javiersuka wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:36 pm
A Brokerstorm representative used to post on this forum in the past ( and other forums too ) and provide his side of explanation towards disputes/ allegations raised by various users.

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=12021

Here, is the profile of Brokerstorm representative. Its always good to have a representative from a Bookmaker to be present on a forum such as this so that everyone can see arguments put forward by both parties and judge the fairness of the decision taken by the bookmaker. Also helps the Bookmakers in gaining more trust from potential customers. I hope Brokerstorm return and justify the decision they have taken.

It does not let me send private messages to this person because it says I am not authorized.
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axelT
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100

Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:06 am

AlfCom8282323456 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:36 am
Well, seeing the race, it is likely that the odds dropped below @5, but if you are telling me that horse didn't match the odds at @5 and supposedly KingFair24 is driven by Betfair, then where does that leave me? I would like to know how low that horse's odds dropped and get that data because it would be very interesting for my justification, which I still insist does not break any rules. If you could give me the extract of all my horse bets, they are always the same: I buy high odds for a horse and always set the LAY below odds @6 and all before the race starts. I hope for help with that horse's odds to see how low they went LIVE.
maybe it was liquidity provided by them or something like that, because it doesnt appear on the betfair history for the odds movement on this horse. The info I showed you is provided by betfair themselves, not by some third party. My friend didnt trade this race but he told me there is 99% chance this horse didnt get matched at odds of @5 or below on the betfair exchange. This is all the info I can find for you, if somebody else can find more that would be great.
javiersuka
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100

Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:44 am

AlfCom8282323456 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:49 am
javiersuka wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:36 pm



It does not let me send private messages to this person because it says I am not authorized.
That Brokerstorm representative hasnt been online in over a year so it doesnt matter.

If possible, send them an email and ask them to revisit the forum and clear the dispute in front of others. Send them the link to this thread, fearing that their reputation is at stake they might come back again and would gladly explain their side if they have nothing to hide and fear.

this thread will accomplish nothing unless Brokerstorm learn about its existence and the consequences they may suffer irrespective of how much evidence you provide here in your favor.
James Ravazzolo
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100

Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:03 pm

it doesnt appear the in play payout ever went below 8.6, so 5 is out of the question. Why would someone have matched at 5, doesnt make sense. After watching the race, the 'jockeying for position' stuff is really immaterial, the 'real' race begins at a very easy to spot point, and Sea Stream got left behind. So unless someone matched prior to that crucial point in the race (which makes no sense) there should have been no legitimate matching.

The BSP for the horse was 13.5, so you could have gotten a better payout using the BSP, which is the case 95% of the time.
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axelT
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100

Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:17 pm

James Ravazzolo wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:03 pm
it doesnt appear the in play payout ever went below 8.6, so 5 is out of the question. Why would someone have matched at 5, doesnt make sense. After watching the race, the 'jockeying for position' stuff is really immaterial, the 'real' race begins at a very easy to spot point, and Sea Stream got left behind. So unless someone matched prior to that crucial point in the race (which makes no sense) there should have been no legitimate matching.

The BSP for the horse was 13.5, so you could have gotten a better payout using the BSP, which is the case 95% of the time.
Yep, exactly what I found out too. No way it was matched on @5. The race is long, the odds wont go so low that early in the race. Someone matched it, that is obvious... the question is who and why
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100

Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:53 pm

the bet amounts are very important too, and I dont see them. If this was layed for a high amount ($200 , $300 ?) that would be significant. It goes to show they are monitoring things closely, 8.6 vs 5 is not huge but clearly is outside some bounds that are set up.

I was under the impression that Betfair odds were the odds that all the white labels had to use, it was simply that the liquidity for the offered odds was higher on the white labels. So how a 5 could even be matched and slip in there somehow, with BF saying nothing went below 8.6 is interesting.

EDIT: I forgot that Kingsfair apparently allows laying in horse racing, whereas Orbit and Piwi do not. That brings in a whole new aspect, since its now outside of Betfair's control. Anyone can lay at any value they want - I wonder if those odds are only then available to accept on Kingsfair.
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axelT
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100

Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:43 pm

James Ravazzolo wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:53 pm
the bet amounts are very important too, and I dont see them. If this was layed for a high amount ($200 , $300 ?) that would be significant. It goes to show they are monitoring things closely, 8.6 vs 5 is not huge but clearly is outside some bounds that are set up.

I was under the impression that Betfair odds were the odds that all the white labels had to use, it was simply that the liquidity for the offered odds was higher on the white labels. So how a 5 could even be matched and slip in there somehow, with BF saying nothing went below 8.6 is interesting.

EDIT: I forgot that Kingsfair apparently allows laying in horse racing, whereas Orbit and Piwi do not. That brings in a whole new aspect, since its now outside of Betfair's control. Anyone can lay at any value they want - I wonder if those odds are only then available to accept on Kingsfair.
that's what I was thinking too.. the liquidity must come from somewhere else, not from Betfair
AlfCom8282323456
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100

Fri Jun 14, 2024 8:58 am

Thank you for investigating. According to what they say, the odds for that horse did not drop below @8.6, which I debate with you. Seeing the course of the race, it shows that the horse started at @13.5, which I bought 1 minute before the race at odds of @11. Now about the LAY odds, James Ravazzolo, do those data you provide come from Betfair?

I was also told that on this link:

https://historicdata.betfair.com/#/home

all the odds second by second are provided, what gets matched, etc... but I have a problem, I cannot sign up on betfair.com. If someone could provide that data, it would be great.

And now regarding the topic of KingFair24, according to BrokerStorm, they always told me that horse racing was powered by betfair.com. Now the debate opens more about whether it is legal or illegal and comes from another site.

A note, I sent an email to BrokerStorm support so that they are informed about this thread. Let's see if they can come and address what is happening and accuse me of something I did not commit.
AlfCom8282323456
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100

Fri Jun 14, 2024 9:43 am

I want to discuss something with you (AxelT and James Ravazzolo) about the minimum odds drop to @8.6 because I doubt that the data provided by the TIMEFORM website are powered by betfair.com. Why do I debate this? Besides having watched thousands of horse races over the years and observing the end of the race in Bath, do you mean to tell me that horse No. 3 CATH THE LIGHT did not drop below @4? There was a moment in the race where it seemed to be leading a few miles from the end, just like horse No. 2 DIVINE PRESENCE, which did not drop below @2.08. But more importantly, the fact that horse No. 3 did not drop below @4 is more significant. I can tell you that my horse matched at odds of @5, judging how the race unfolded, and moreover, I placed both BACK and LAY bets to then not earn anything in the race because my strategy is to buy the BACK at X and sell the LAY at the same X price, and they blocked my account without obtaining winnings from that horse, I find it absurd.

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