I obtained the info from betfair, not from TIMEFORM. You can see for yourself here https://promo.betfair.com/betfairsp/prices , the name of the file is dwbfpricesukwin25052024.csvAlfCom8282323456 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 9:43 amI want to discuss something with you (AxelT and James Ravazzolo) about the minimum odds drop to @8.6 because I doubt that the data provided by the TIMEFORM website are powered by betfair.com. Why do I debate this? Besides having watched thousands of horse races over the years and observing the end of the race in Bath, do you mean to tell me that horse No. 3 CATH THE LIGHT did not drop below @4? There was a moment in the race where it seemed to be leading a few miles from the end, just like horse No. 2 DIVINE PRESENCE, which did not drop below @2.08. But more importantly, the fact that horse No. 3 did not drop below @4 is more significant. I can tell you that my horse matched at odds of @5, judging how the race unfolded, and moreover, I placed both BACK and LAY bets to then not earn anything in the race because my strategy is to buy the BACK at X and sell the LAY at the same X price, and they blocked my account without obtaining winnings from that horse, I find it absurd.
BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100
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axelT
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100
- AlfCom8282323456
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100
Checked, and if those are the actual Betfair data, then you are absolutely right, my horse did not drop below odds of @8.6. Now my question is, is KingFair24 powered by Betfair? And how was my horse bought at odds of @5? Because I am starting to have doubts about these people. Anyway, I will investigate and see if this Betfair database is accurate and reliable, because I still have doubts. I hope that an agent from BrokerStorm comes forward here to give us an explanation of what is happening and to defend themselves in my case.
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axelT
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100
you can contact Betfair Help on twitter and ask them about this database if its reliable if you have doubtsAlfCom8282323456 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 8:41 pmChecked, and if those are the actual Betfair data, then you are absolutely right, my horse did not drop below odds of @8.6. Now my question is, is KingFair24 powered by Betfair? And how was my horse bought at odds of @5? Because I am starting to have doubts about these people. Anyway, I will investigate and see if this Betfair database is accurate and reliable, because I still have doubts. I hope that an agent from BrokerStorm comes forward here to give us an explanation of what is happening and to defend themselves in my case.
- AlfCom8282323456
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100
t's not that I doubt 100%, I just want to prove my innocence regarding my bet. How can they say that I manipulated it if in the actual database that horse was not bought at odds of @5?axelT wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 9:50 pmyou can contact Betfair Help on twitter and ask them about this database if its reliable if you have doubtsAlfCom8282323456 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 8:41 pmChecked, and if those are the actual Betfair data, then you are absolutely right, my horse did not drop below odds of @8.6. Now my question is, is KingFair24 powered by Betfair? And how was my horse bought at odds of @5? Because I am starting to have doubts about these people. Anyway, I will investigate and see if this Betfair database is accurate and reliable, because I still have doubts. I hope that an agent from BrokerStorm comes forward here to give us an explanation of what is happening and to defend themselves in my case.
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axelT
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100
It was matched on their exchange, not on betfair... they should know who took the bet, who provided the liquidity for the marketAlfCom8282323456 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 10:06 pmt's not that I doubt 100%, I just want to prove my innocence regarding my bet. How can they say that I manipulated it if in the actual database that horse was not bought at odds of @5?axelT wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 9:50 pmyou can contact Betfair Help on twitter and ask them about this database if its reliable if you have doubtsAlfCom8282323456 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 8:41 pmChecked, and if those are the actual Betfair data, then you are absolutely right, my horse did not drop below odds of @8.6. Now my question is, is KingFair24 powered by Betfair? And how was my horse bought at odds of @5? Because I am starting to have doubts about these people. Anyway, I will investigate and see if this Betfair database is accurate and reliable, because I still have doubts. I hope that an agent from BrokerStorm comes forward here to give us an explanation of what is happening and to defend themselves in my case.
- James Ravazzolo
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100
that KingFair allows Lay betting on horses is very rare, they are the only one besides Betfair itself (?). I don't see why anyone matched at 5 when 8.6 (or more) was available (albeit perhaps at small volume). That's accepting 42$ less than the apparent minimum value in-play ever reached . I imagine Orbit and Piwi dont allow lay bets due to the added complexity it brings. If KingFair has a mixture of odds from Betfair and their own players, it certainly makes things more difficult to track down and confirm. The key points would seem to be: how much the Lay bet was and if a single individual accepted all of it or multiple players.
" .. they should know who took the bet, who provided the liquidity for the market". Didn't the OP provide all the liquidity for the Lay at 5?
" .. they should know who took the bet, who provided the liquidity for the market". Didn't the OP provide all the liquidity for the Lay at 5?
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axelT
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100
Yes, I was speaking in general, who provides the liquidity for horse racing on KingFair because its clearly not only betfairJames Ravazzolo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2024 2:16 amthat KingFair allows Lay betting on horses is very rare, they are the only one besides Betfair itself (?). I don't see why anyone matched at 5 when 8.6 (or more) was available (albeit perhaps at small volume). That's accepting 42$ less than the apparent minimum value in-play ever reached . I imagine Orbit and Piwi dont allow lay bets due to the added complexity it brings. If KingFair has a mixture of odds from Betfair and their own players, it certainly makes things more difficult to track down and confirm. The key points would seem to be: how much the Lay bet was and if a single individual accepted all of it or multiple players.
" .. they should know who took the bet, who provided the liquidity for the market". Didn't the OP provide all the liquidity for the Lay at 5?
- AlfCom8282323456
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100
Well, that's what I want to get to, that they investigate the person or people who supposedly bought my odds at @5 since it wasn't bought on Betfair. And now I ask, what fault do I have for my account being blocked? That's why I would like the agents from BrokerStorm to come forward and clarify my case, because they have already been informed about this thread by email.
- AlfCom8282323456
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100
Well, my doubts have become reality. First, I want to say thanks to a colleague who sent me an image of a race taken from Betfair on Friday, and we compared it with the data from TIMEFORM. I would just like you to see it.
From @5.6 to @2.84 is quite a drop, isn't it? And now I can say 100% that my horse's odds dropped below @5 and were matched. I would just like to know, what do they have to say now?
From @5.6 to @2.84 is quite a drop, isn't it? And now I can say 100% that my horse's odds dropped below @5 and were matched. I would just like to know, what do they have to say now?
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axelT
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100
I guess you need to find out the same information about your race from somewhere. I already asked a friend of mine who is a professional trader, but unfortunately he does not have info about this race.AlfCom8282323456 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2024 11:45 pmWell, my doubts have become reality. First, I want to say thanks to a colleague who sent me an image of a race taken from Betfair on Friday, and we compared it with the data from TIMEFORM. I would just like you to see it.
From @5.6 to @2.84 is quite a drop, isn't it? And now I can say 100% that my horse's odds dropped below @5 and were matched. I would just like to know, what do they have to say now?
- AlfCom8282323456
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100
That's why it seemed strange to me. According to this person, the TIMEFORM data does not match the matched bets in LIVE on Betfair. If you have a friend who can check it, you will see that this person is right; it happens in almost all the races.axelT wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 10:39 amI guess you need to find out the same information about your race from somewhere. I already asked a friend of mine who is a professional trader, but unfortunately he does not have info about this race.AlfCom8282323456 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2024 11:45 pmWell, my doubts have become reality. First, I want to say thanks to a colleague who sent me an image of a race taken from Betfair on Friday, and we compared it with the data from TIMEFORM. I would just like you to see it.
From @5.6 to @2.84 is quite a drop, isn't it? And now I can say 100% that my horse's odds dropped below @5 and were matched. I would just like to know, what do they have to say now?
- AlfCom8282323456
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100
I still haven't heard back from BrokerStorm. I sent them two emails days ago, and today I will send another one. If I hear from them, I will keep you informed. For now, I do not recommend that people register with them (BrokerStorm). However, if anyone can help me, it would be appreciated.
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arbusers
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Not sure who should answer this question, but we do not intervene in cases with companies we do not support. Good luck, and thank you for reporting.
Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100
Not sure who should answer this question, but we do not intervene in cases with companies we do not support. Good luck, and thank you for reporting.
- James Ravazzolo
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100
do Kingfair lay bets get added to the Betfair pool, available to everyone (even me on Orbit), or do they stay strictly within Kingfair ? I still don't see why anyone would match that horse at 5, when best case scenario it was tied with 3 other horses at an unimportant stage in the race. This was a BSP 13.5 horse alongside three other horses (presumably all lower odds, but I have not confirmed that) and someone took 5 ? You've never said how much was matched, was this 10 , 100, or more? And perhaps most important, how long did it take to go from 300 to 4100 ? This normally does not happen in horse racing, its nearly impossible, unless it was a few bets and strictly dumb luck. Their analysis software kicked in and determined this was so far out of the norm that it has to be due to some other factors. If you're a victim of bad luck due to way too much luck, that's unfortunate.
- James Ravazzolo
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Re: BrokerStorm and KingFair account closed from €300 to €4100
you might check out historicdata.betfair.com/#/home
I once had to look over thousands of in-play horse files, and they probably come from here. They have a .bz2 extension and there is an online tool to extract the data to a csv file. Its thousands of lines of in-play odds for the race, from start to end. If Betfair was involved in the matching at 5, it would show up in such a file. If not and this was a KingFair only lay / back, it wont be in there. These historical files vary from free to costly, I dont know if the free would have enough granularity to include every lay/back. If you know someone with a BF account they can get the free data for the time period and find the particular race. If it has the in-play data then maybe buy the Pro or Advanced version. But if this was a KingFair only situation, your 5 Lay offer wont be there.
I once had to look over thousands of in-play horse files, and they probably come from here. They have a .bz2 extension and there is an online tool to extract the data to a csv file. Its thousands of lines of in-play odds for the race, from start to end. If Betfair was involved in the matching at 5, it would show up in such a file. If not and this was a KingFair only lay / back, it wont be in there. These historical files vary from free to costly, I dont know if the free would have enough granularity to include every lay/back. If you know someone with a BF account they can get the free data for the time period and find the particular race. If it has the in-play data then maybe buy the Pro or Advanced version. But if this was a KingFair only situation, your 5 Lay offer wont be there.
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