Arbusers

It is crystal clear that PayPal participates in the CRS.

Yes, and Arbusers was correct before in his assessment, I got the information directly from paypal, that only balances on 31.12. will be reported, no transactions, this is confirmed and verified.

So the worst case scenario, and I mean worst, is that Skrill and Neteller does the same (only balances on 31.12.) however it is also unclear if they will even participate in this first year.

Pistu wrote: https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2016/Fahrplan/events/7880.html

This is just a general lecture on  FACTA/CRS by a lawyer, at a hackers' community congress. Nothing in particular with PP was mentioned.

Here's the lecture, if anyone's interested: https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7880-international_exchange_of_tax_information

Arbusers wrote: It is crystal clear that PayPal participates in the CRS.

From

... we, as a data controller, inform you that the following data will be collected and may be exchanged or otherwise processed for the purposes of the aforementioned laws (assuming they apply) and in accordance with them:

It's not 100% clear at this time.

In my opinion, the question is not if they (will) participate, but when? I have explained in a previous post the reasons why it's difficult for them to report 2016's  balances.

I think the WHEN cannot be a question by law as the CRS law of Luxembourg requires them to comply and send data till June 30th this year with last year info. That is clear.

When the new Privacy Policy will come into effect, I guess they will just send out a mass message to users to upload all the data/documents that are still missing (if any!) that is required for the reporting. Then they will easily complete the reporting...

Pistu wrote: I think the WHEN cannot be a question by law as the CRS law of Luxembourg requires them to comply and send data till June 30th this year with last year info. That is clear.

I believe when he said "when", he meant for which fiscal year. Bank compliance is not something that is set in stone and deadlines get moved in certain situations.

When the new Privacy Policy will come into effect, I guess they will just send out a mass message to users to upload all the data/documents that are still missing (if any!) that is required for the reporting. Then they will easily complete the reporting...

Again, not so easy. There are disputes, there are members who won't log in within that short time frame (2 months or less), there are incorrect indicia situations, etc.

I believe it will take a bit more time than that.

This is the final verdict coming from HMRC:
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-exchange-of-information/ieim400750
I believe it is in accordance with our initial opinion and position that proves to be correct.

is this the new recommendation or the one they withdrew recently?  If new, what is the difference? I remember it was something like this that they withdrew.

According to this statement, Skrill and similar e-wallets will not be part of CRS.

Pre-Paid store cards will not be part of CRS.

I'm not sure about Pre-Paid Debit MasterCards like Payoneer.

And still don't know about PayPal because they don't take deposits like an ordinary bank, don't pay interest on 'deposit' and the money there is not protected by the deposit protection scheme of Luxembourg that applies to Banks.

hmm I think this is the withdrawn version:

First published:25 April 2016
Updated:28 September 2016


They withdrew it in January 2017 or so.

what do you mean withdrew? Even if they withdrew it in January 2017, surely it cannot apply for 2016, retroactively?

And what did they post as updated then?


Btw, Arbusers, there is no doubt that e-money FCA regulated services like Skrill and Neteller by law do NOT have to be a part of the CRS, this is what Skrill told me 10 times, including 2 weeks ago, that they are NOT the part of it.

What confuses me is one answer I got from Skrill which says that ALTHOUGH Skrill and Neteller are not participating in the CRS (they said "in the OECD" actually which is funny), "Paysafe as a regulated institution will do so".

This is what knocked me out, because once again, why would Paysafe push themselves and purposely share Skrill and Neteller data if they don't have to?

They just risk losing a large chunk of their business, and stand nothing to gain.
Also, don't you think it's bizarre how Skrill told you ask FCA, FCA says ask HMRC, HMRC says "it's up to each entity to decide for themselves, we cannot comment on a status of a particular entity".

Isn't that just bizarre as hell? If HMRC is the supreme regulatory body, then it's obvious they make the call.
It's just utterly confusing. What I believe is (I think) similar to your path, what Skrill, neteller and others are doing is enhancing KYC protocols, ensuring that the business is as clean and as regulated as possible, and about CRS I think they are prepared to join if necessary, however I feel that until now there is no legislation that covers them.


@Pistu, Paypal is different, they have a banking license in Europe, so they are treated as a bank. Which is insane since they are not a depository institution either.

Lastly, I wonder how huge of a data and administrational mess this could be, only Paypal has 60 million accounts in Europe to report, imagine all sorts of banks, insurance institutions, all splashing data on each other without TINs, different addresses, multiple residences, dormant accounts, etc.

It's gonna be almost impossibly hard for the regulatory bodies throughout EU to be prepared for this in year 1. Bank compliance takes time, and this should too.

Pistu wrote: And still don't know about PayPal because they don't take deposits like an ordinary bank, don't pay interest on 'deposit' and the money there is not protected by the deposit protection scheme of Luxembourg that applies to Banks.

Luxembourg's authorities have made it clearer.  Read my post reply #95. or refer to their website (in French)
http://www.impotsdirects.public.lu/fr/echanges_electroniques/CRS_NCD/FAQ_CRS_NCD.html#monel

A question arising: does PayPal Europe have other (bank-like) activities in EU?

"A question arising: does PayPal Europe have other (bank-like) activities in EU?"

Exactly. It all comes down to this question. I red the FAQ earlier that you linked, and I think that even if PP has a banking license, it's still NOT CLEAR whether it's a Reporting Financial Institution because we don't know for sure that it does conduct other activities that are MORE than what they consider e-money issuing and payment processing.

I still beleive that the FAQ here refers to debit taking, paying interest on debit, etc.. which PayPal DOES NOT do.  If it would, then it would be SURELY a Reporting Financial Institution.

Today's answer support PrivacyPolicy on the CRS:

Question: My PayPal account information will be automatically exchanged by PayPal with the Luxembourg tax authorities or with my XXX tax authorities or not?

My note: I am EU citizen and my country is subject to the CRS.

Dear XXX,

Thank you for contacting PayPal regarding tax questions you have.

We have reviewed your account and it shows that we do not send any taxing information to your tax agency. You must resolve your declaration and tax obligations yourself and ask your tax office what needs to be done.

So the answer is no, nothing is automatically exchanged with either tax authorities but you have a legal obligation to provide necessary information. If you have funds to declare, please speak to the tax authorities in your country and ask them how to proceed.

Yours sincerely,
Alexander
PayPal

Copyright © 1999-2017 PayPal. All rights reserved.

PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. et Cie, S.C.A.
Société en Commandite par Actions
Registered Office: 22-24 Boulevard Royal L-2449, Luxembourg
RCS Luxembourg B 118 349

My note: All support PrivacyPolicy (Lucyna, Ersin, Natalia, Pawel, Alexander) still they say the same thing. I do not think they would lie to us.

Sorry the chronological seqence is reversed, so my first message to them is at the bottom. I have not received any answers from them till the one at the top. It is interesting that they finally had decided to forward my question to another department. )




Dear XXX,
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
I have forwarded your query to the correct department to help you get accurate information. Please standby while we review your query.
It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing PayPal.
Yours sincerely,
Serdar
PayPal

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Dear PayPal,

Thanks again for your answer.

We are getting there. I understand from your answer that - as I mentioned I also red it in your CURRENT Privacy Policy - you must and will comply to all law and send info of users upon request.

My question was about the UPCOMING Privacy Policy taking effect at the end of April, this year. You issued the Extended Fatca AND CRS Notice about it at the end of January, this year.

So according to that NEW policy, will you still send user data to authorities only on request OR also automatically? CRS is for AUTOMATIC Exchange of Information, you see... And both our country and Luxembourg are signatories of that OECD treaty. Earlier you only had FATCA for U.S. residents, now CRS is for "everyone".

If PayPal considers itself a Reporting Financial Institution under CRS law of Luxembourg then you will AUTOMATICALLY report sixty million account holders' data to Luxembourg Tax Authority which sends that to national tax authorities all over Europe. 

Thanks for the clarification.

Sincerely, XXX


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Dear XXX,
Thank you for contacting PayPal Customer Support.
My name is Gheorghe and I am happy to assist you with your query regarding PayPal users policy
As a bank we are obliged by law to comply with the law ,this means that if and I repeat if the authorities for example tax office are requiring  certain details regarding your transactions we are obliged to comply
I appreciate your patience and understanding in regards to your issue and wish you success with using our services in the future.
Please let us know if you require any further assistance and we'll be more than happy to help you
It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing PayPal.
Yours sincerely,
Gheorghe
PayPal

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Dear Joanna (or whoever would answer in the next round...) ,

Thanks for the prompt answer. However, the answer I got is a very generic one. Of course I've red all your policies and the upcoming changes many times. But it's not clear. That's why I had a specific question that I hope a specific answer for.

PayPal users do not know how exactly PayPal will handle the Common Reporting Standard under Luxembourg law.

Will it automatically report the details mentioned by the Standard this year (second half of the year) with the data from last year ?  So basically, is PayPal a Reporting Financial Institution ??  Last year there were answers from you that PayPal as a e-money issuer and payment processor does not qualify as a Reporting Financial Institution so PP will not report automatically under CRS regulations.  Sixty million European Users are in the dark about this and it will cause major outrage.

Please specify what changes occured in the national and international legislation that suddenly generated the change in your Privacy Policy that will come into effect soon.

Sincerely,

XXX

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Dear XXX,
Thank you for contacting PayPal regarding PayPal Privacy Policy
My name is Joanna and I picked up your email today. I am happy to help you with your query today.
Keeping your PayPal account secure is what’s most important to us. We guard your information both physically and electronically and we’ve a team of over ### specialists including former law enforcement officials working to protect you from fraud and identity theft. Our system is designed so that even our employees can only see the last # digits of your financials.
We automatically encrypt your confidential information so it can’t be intercepted when in transit from your computer to ours, and we never share your financial details. We only disclose your personal information as outlined in our Privacy Policy or when you instruct us to
We keep records of all PayPal payments, for at least # years. We do this to comply with law, prevent fraud and assist with any possible future investigations.
If you made a payment using PayPal, we’re unable to remove all of your records from our database, even if you close your account. However, we’ll only use your account information in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
When you sign up for a PayPal account, we require you to provide us with information that is necessary to process your transactions and to help administer your account, such as your name, address, phone number, email address, financial information etc.
We use your details to help us to process transactions, fight fraud, resolve disputes and inform you about our other offers, products and services. Sometimes, we may also ask you for further details such as ID to comply with anti-money laundering regulations.
We may share your personal information with law enforcement, payment processors and other third parties with your consent. Our Privacy Policy describes in detail, the personal information we may disclose about you and the circumstances for disclosure. To view our Privacy Policy, visit www.paypal.com, log in to your account and click the ‘Privacy’ link at the bottom of the page.
It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing PayPal.
Yours sincerely,
Joanna
PayPal

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customer subject:
legacy
customer message: >Topic: 'Privacy'
>Sub Topic: 'Privacy Questions'
>user_customer_experience: 'personal'
>browser_type: 'DESKTOP'
>web_form_type: '#####'
>pageflow: 'privacy_questions'
>message: 'Hello,
>
>I'd like to know - as per your Privacy Policy section ##. Accountability - what personal information do you store about me and whether you will exchange this information automatically after June ##. #### to the Luxembourg Tax Authority in accordance with Common Reporting Standard (CRS).

Gheorghe write same info as all support PayPal PrivacyPolicy but Joanna is some new and does not know what is the CRS and writes about something else.

Well ecopayz reply is not detailed enough but its not good 
"Yes, we will be required to report customer information under OECD's common reporting standard."