Arbusers

Okay after some research I realized paypal WON'T REPORT under the CRS law ...

Here is a video about paypal registration, the person sign up from Hungary where I live too and which is an OECD country so participate in CRS ...

video:

In this video you can see an EU citizen sign up to paypal, during the sign up process they did not asked her TIN adress what is necessary for submit report...

I checked the Hungarian banks protocol about CRS, they have the same (I think it is the same in all banks in the EU)

Citibank

https://www.citibank.hu/gcb/Lakossagi_ugyfelek/english/CRS/index.htm#sthash.VzPLngeb.dpuf

"If you are opening bank account after January 1, 2016, you will need to complete additional documentation (CRS Self-Certification Form) as applicable to comply with CRS requirements."

OTP bank:

https://www.otpbank.hu/static/portal/sw/file/CRS_DAC2_Lakossagi_hirdetmeny_EN_20170601.pdf

"New clients are required to make a written declaration on their residence for
tax purposes, without exception.

The Bank will not establish a contractual relationship with clients failing to
make the declaration.

With regard to the foregoing, we specifically remind our future account holding
clients that if they wish to open an account with OTP Bank and they are
resident for tax purposes in a Participating Jurisdiction, the declaration of the
TIN in the Participating Jurisdiction/Newly Joining Participating Jurisdiction is
an essential condition for account opening.
"

CIB bank:

http://www.cib.hu/cib_group/cib_bank/crs?defaultLanguage=english

"Customers who wish to open a new account or modify their data must provide a declaration regarding their residence for tax purposes.In the cases specified by law - (e.g. if data indicate residence abroad) CIB Bank Ltd may request additional data.  due diligence and - if necessary - the handover of the data is required in order to satisfy the obligations set forth by law."


So if Paypal really report than they have to:

1. Ask the necessary details from the account holders about the necessary details for the CRS report ...
In my paypal account I not even have posibility to provide my TAX ID or TIN but I am sure they would ask it if my account were a reportable account!

2. If paypal is a reportable financial institution then THEY MUST ASK THE NECESSARY DETAILS (tax residence, TIN etc.) before somebody sign up an account from a country which participate in the CRS agreement but as you see in the video, they do not ask such details, in a reporting financial institution it is impossible to sign up/create an account with obviously FAKE/FALSE details like the lady did from my country in the video because banks under the CRS law has to follow a protocoll...

So after these it is sure for me the paypal won't report and those in the paypal's customer service has no clue what are they talking about hence somebody get that reply they won't report and an other person get different reply!

right... So it's more clear! .... for example leupay is an e-wallet but ask for fiscal code, TIN and so on.... it's clear reporting

Leupay will report for sure:

https://www.leupay.eu/pdf/CRS_FAQ_EN%20SATABANK.pdf

They have a very long document about it and as I see they ask all necessary details for the CRS report ...

So if i start using my account now and later they has to implement crs then they can report me retroactively? Btw they can report without TIN "However, if customers do not provide the Financial Institution with a reasonable Self-Certification (and in certain cases also valid Documentary Evidence) the Financial Institution is legally bound to report the account based on indicia identified." https://www.rbinternational.com/eBusiness/01_template1/829189266947841370-829188968716049154-1190268758860276812-NA-2-EN.html

"Btw they can report without TIN "However, if customers do not provide the Financial Institution with a reasonable Self-Certification (and in certain cases also valid Documentary Evidence) the Financial Institution is legally bound to report the account based on indicia identified."

If they are subject of CRS they must ask TIN/Tax ID and tax residence from the new account holders from 01/01/2016 like the 3 other do it what I mentioned as examples ...

If you make a paypal account you have to send ID card and a proof of adress to remove the account limits because they have to comply the EU anti-money laundering policy!

So if they have to comply the CRS too, they will ask TIN and tax residence at least from the new customers after 01/01/2016 but no such thing at paypal!

At a financial institution, which is subject of the CRS law it has to be imposible to create an account with "Foxi Maxi" and "Donald Duck" names from Hungary who live in "idiotcity at the dumb street 666" but I could sign up a such account and hold 2-3000 euros on each/year ... so these things make me sure they won't report ...

Yes i understood that they not reporting at the moment but what happens if they do it in the future and do it retroactively ? They already collecting the data am i right ? Thats my problem. If skrill warn me and i can close my accont without reporting thats ok for me. (Paypal already warned) And if you register with fake data you can only use the account wery limitedly for example as far as i know you can withdrow to bank account if your name and adress match. Or if you want a skrill debit card you have to provide a real post adress. And as I wrote before not providing them additional details (TIN etc.) wont protect me from beeing reported.

"Yes i understood that they not reporting at the moment but what happens if they do it in the future and do it retroactively ?"

Well Cas if paypal start to report then I think they will send you CRS Entity Self-Certification Form...

Here it is: www.crs.hsbc.com/~/media/crs/pdfs/crs-e_entities_self_cert_form.pdf

If paypal sending me anything like this then its too late to do anything 

"If paypal sending me anything like this then its too late to do anything"

Yes then too late becuase if you do not reply they will report what they know about you, but at least they must ask the missing details from you with that form and they must send this CRS  entity self certification form to those persons who sign up to paypal after 01/01/2016 from OECD countries...

I asked the customer service again and they replied me 2 days ago, they told the same what they told 2 months ago... they told the same bullshit what they told before so "they do not report any of my balances or account details, it is my responsibility to report my income to the local tax office and pay the taxes etc." ...

I asked more ppl in the customer service I even asked "Will paypal report my details under the CRS law or not? YES or NO" but they just told the similar bullshits so I am sure they have no clue about it or they won't report ...

Let's wait for september deadline!

anyway I think that e-wallets are a provisional means before banks ... there is no reason to report them either,

It would be a chaos for them

"Let's wait for september deadline!"

Well if they report we will get to know it later maybe in 2018 spring or summer (or even the begining of 2019) when the local tax offices pick the first suspicious account holders for tax inspection because I am sure they will need a few months to check the details ...

Just the NAV (Hungarian tax office) will receive about 100 000 paypal acount details - if the paypal reports -  and there are much more bank accounts at other banks...

+ I am sure they won't really care about accounts with little balance because they get so many datas every year and as I know the local tax office they won't be able to handle that so much every year ...

As a FCA-registered and regulated entity, our company always abides to the provisions entered by the UK with other countries. In terms of the Automatic Exchange of information, there are still no clear guidelines for eMoney activities. For instance, the Common Reporting Standard will be in force for the UK since September 2017 only, and there is still no evidence that it will somehow affect electronic payment systems. We may share the customer’s information only in case of receiving an official UK police request or UK court order.

ropulos wrote: As a FCA-registered and regulated entity, our company always abides to the provisions entered by the UK with other countries. In terms of the Automatic Exchange of information, there are still no clear guidelines for eMoney activities. For instance, the Common Reporting Standard will be in force for the UK since September 2017 only, and there is still no evidence that it will somehow affect electronic payment systems. We may share the customer’s information only in case of receiving an official UK police request or UK court order.

This is good news 

"In terms of the Automatic Exchange of information, there are still no clear guidelines for eMoney activities."

So this means that E-wallets still don't know are they subject the CRS or not, but I think the paypal sure won't report or it has very low chance... they didn't do any steps for comply with the CRS guidelines and this sentence explain why did they updated the CRS in their private policy...

Simply it was unclear them what are the CRS guidelines for e-wallets so they updated it for safety so if they has to report then we can't say that they did not notified us ...

ropulos wrote: As a FCA-registered and regulated entity, our company always abides to the provisions entered by the UK with other countries. In terms of the Automatic Exchange of information, there are still no clear guidelines for eMoney activities. For instance, the Common Reporting Standard will be in force for the UK since September 2017 only, and there is still no evidence that it will somehow affect electronic payment systems. We may share the customer’s information only in case of receiving an official UK police request or UK court order.

Who is this reply from?

Thank you.