BET-IBC SCAM EXPOSED - With proofs

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Tennistrader
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Tennistrader

BET-IBC SCAM EXPOSED - With proofs
« on: December 19, 2018, 09:19:25 AM »

Dear community;

I opened a betfair account thought the bet-ibc.com broker, was their client in the last 3 years without any problem but one day I won "2 big trades", one of around 12k eur and another about 68k eur. I requested an withdraw of 64,605€ and in the next day they suspended my account claiming that I was involved in money laundering, then I change for 1 month several emails with the broker explaining that I don't have nothing to do with any kind of money laundering etc and they only replied that they were waiting from betfair decision. As I was seeing that the case did not follow, I decided to send an email to betfair explaining the situation and I also said that I was about to report them, after 2 days they concluded that everything was correct with my account and they unlocked but missing the requested withdraw of 64,605€, then I checked the transactions and this amount was credited to my account then transferred to another one that I don't know. I continued using the account without any problem for about 8 months and always asking the broker about this money and they always responded that they were waiting for the answer from betfair. The last email from the broker was requesting my password to check the transaction, at the time my account was with 0eur so I give to them without any problem but they didn't checked nothing and they changed the password and suspended the account.
I opened a case at resolver.co.uk and only after 1 month betfair replied saying that account don’t exist and they don’t work with bet-ibc, I replied showing the print-screens and saying that I have emails between betfair and bet-ibc!

What do you guys advice?
Thanks
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 09:52:08 AM by Tennistrader » Logged
ulfi
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ulfi

Re: Betfair / bet-ibc moved 64K from my acc
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2018, 12:41:51 AM »

did you made this 2 bets inplay/in a liquid market or in a very early market with almost no liquidity and were your matched odds normal at the time of your bet, or were they off?
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vinciguerra
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Re: Betfair / bet-ibc moved 64K from my acc
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2018, 11:25:50 AM »

do you have a screenshot of your balance being transfered out?
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arbusers
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Re: Betfair / bet-ibc moved 64K from my acc
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2018, 11:44:18 AM »

I have some questions and some remarks based on the OP post.

What were these 2 large bets?
How do you know that your account was suspended because of these 2 bets? Did they inform you about that?
Did they say ''waiting from betfair decision''? This is important so we understand who was receiving these bets. It could be betfair, an agent or bet-ibc.
Who unlocked the account? Betfair or bet-ibc? Did betfair mention that ''everything was correct with my account'' as you say? Or was it bet-ibc mentioning that?
How did you continue using the account when the balance was missing? Did you redeposit?
Why did you let a period of 8 months during which you had no crystal clear answer on where your money was?
I m asking all this so we get a clear picture of what the issue is.
 
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apoel81
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Re: Betfair / bet-ibc moved 64K from my acc
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2018, 12:03:08 PM »

So, you continue using your account for 8 months while you had 64k missing from your account? What's is your status with Bet-IBC? Are you a regular punter or an intermediate? 

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Tennistrader
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Re: Betfair / bet-ibc moved 64K from my acc
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2018, 04:46:50 AM »

Hi guys, thanks for you'r questions and the support ;)

did you made this 2 bets inplay/in a liquid market or in a very early market with almost no liquidity and were your matched odds normal at the time of your bet, or were they off?
In-play in a liquid market, otherwise I would not be able to match 2/3k stakes. In both games, at some time, the favorite requested medical timeout and in this situation the odds were off, this is normal at betfair tennis markets, I have matched back/lay bets between for example 1.10-5 and not only one of 10k at 7.

do you have a screenshot of your balance being transfered out?

Yes I have, and I have questions about this transfer, the description is: "Currency Transfer To Acc ID 1593**** EUR to HKD"
What means HKD? Hong Kong Dollars? Betfair is legal at Hong Kong?

How do you know that your account was suspended because of these 2 bets? Did they inform you about that?
I'm pretty sure it was, my "normal day" is around 2/3k profit and loss and we are talking about a 80k profit day.
Yes they did, next day I asked about my susp acc and the broker sent me:
"Dear Sir, Betfair informed us that you have been involved in a clear fund passing case and that´s why these steps have been taken by Betfair.
Best regards,
BET-IBC"

Did they say ''waiting from betfair decision''? This is important so we understand who was receiving these bets. It could be betfair, an agent or bet-ibc.
"Hi, next step we wait for Betfair´s decision…..nothing more we can make at the moment.
Regards,
BET-IBC"

Who unlocked the account? Betfair or bet-ibc? Did betfair mention that ''everything was correct with my account'' as you say? Or was it bet-ibc mentioning that?
I'm not sure about this but the most relevant mails between me and bet-ibc are this ones:
"Yes, that they investigate and will come back to us once they have news.
As you know Betfair, this can take long time."
"Hi, No news yet?"
"Betfair keeps their position that you did a fraud by transfering money from another account.
They will think what to do and will come back to us.
Usually such cases are not solved very fast, so only thing is you can wait and we can keep asking them every few weeks."
"What? They said that I did a fraud? Or my account was involved without knowing ? Because its very different scenario.
I will contact betfair, thanks"
"Once you contact betfair yourself, they will contact us and we are out of this.
From that time we will not be able to help……your decision"
"But you are already out of this, they are doing wrong accusations against me, how can you help?"
"Nobody can help, only we have to wait."
"Can you send me the email where betfair says that I commit fraud ?"
"Once we will have a clear answer about what your account, we will inform you.
The information they provided to us is confidential , but we told you the reason already."
"Hi. No answer yet from betfair?"
"This is the last reply from them.
Please get in touch with the master, information on the case will be communicated to him when it's available.
And so far no news, they said will contact when they will have the full answer."
"Hi, There are no progress about my betfair account?"
"we wrote yesterday and they did not reply yet. The last update was some days ago:
„Many apologies for the delay here during what we appreciate is a frustrating time.
Due to the complexity of the investigations here, it is still on-going however we understand the account is getting closed to a conclusion and decision on how to act. We did put forward your request on only holding funds which are absolutely necessary and we will be sending you the difference back but it’s taking a while to ascertain how much we need to retain.
It is very unlikely that the sub-account will be reactivated and we strongly advise that you do not do business with them again through another Betfair account. If we have reason to believe that this does happen then this is likely to result in an absolute closure such is the serious nature of the issue.
Best regards.“
We will contact them again in 1 week if we don´t get a reply before.
As stated various times, in case we would get a useful information, you would bet he first that would be informed."
"Thanks for the response, I’m happy to know that this is in the final phase, but what they mean by saying “It is very unlikely that the sub-account will be reactivated”? I will lose all my funds?
I hope that this doesn’t happen and they do well their math about my funds because I already have the transactions history and print screens from my account ready to report them.
I can see their side but I can assure you that I’m not involved in any money laundering, I’m probably your best tennis trader, I won about *** k eur per year, you have my ID documents, I use skrill to deposit/withdraw, I’m a Skrill customer for more than 10 years and as you may know they take security very serious, for all this reasons and more don’t you think that’s ridiculous? "
"Once there are any updates about your account, you will be informed right away."
"Hi, Looks like your account should be active again."
"Oh really? Yesterday I sent email to betfair. thanks anyway."

And that's it, what do you guys think? Could be coincidence that they unsuspend the acc right after I sent to betfair the email but I don't think so.

How did you continue using the account when the balance was missing? Did you redeposit?
Why did you let a period of 8 months during which you had no crystal clear answer on where your money was?

The balance wasn't missing, only that 64k withdraw, the acc was unsuspended with the balance of about 24k and fully functional with no withdraws issues.

I wouldn't had any problem if they void all bets or even giving me back my initial balance and closed the acc but that wasn't the case, if there is someone with my money at Miami beach sorry but you'r vacations are over.
I was always 100% honest with this broker, sometimes they did double deposits/withdraws and I always give to them the right amount, we are talking about to aprox 20k in the last 3 years, so guys, if you work with this broker just deposit/withdraw everyday and you will get some gifts, if bet-ibc read this... oooppsss!

I already filled a complaint at: resolver.co.uk , sportsbookreview.com , game-protect.com and at https://e-gambling.me against this broker.
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Tennistrader
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Tennistrader

Re: Betfair / bet-ibc moved 64K from my acc
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2018, 07:48:51 AM »

So, you continue using your account for 8 months while you had 64k missing from your account? What's is your status with Bet-IBC? Are you a regular punter or an intermediate?
Exactly, I keep trading as usual. My status? what do you mean? I was a regular trader with betfair and matchbook accounts.
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arbusers
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arbusers

Re: Betfair / bet-ibc moved 64K from my acc
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2018, 11:57:17 AM »

What were these 2 large bets?

I am asking again the same question. The reason is that I would like to see if the events that your placed your bets on are indeed flagged as suspicious by any body.

As they claim ''that you did a fraud by transfering money from another account'' I m asking you if you hold another Betfair accounts with them or directly with betfair, or if you think there was an exactly correlated bet with your bets. Also did you have any corelated action with Matchbook?
Thank you.
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Tennistrader
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Tennistrader

Re: Betfair / bet-ibc moved 64K from my acc
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2018, 05:58:49 AM »

What were these 2 large bets?
I am asking again the same question. The reason is that I would like to see if the events that your placed your bets on are indeed flagged as suspicious by any body.

Thanks for the support but at the time this was the first search that I did and din't found nothing.
Was this games at WTA Hawaii Open, HAN, Na-Lae - LUTZEIER, Lena and SEBOV, Katherine - JAKSIC, Jovana
http://wtafiles.wtatennis.com/pdf/draws/2017/1095/QS.pdf

What I found most correlated to my case was this post, I'm not surprised if I was trading against their "retarded traders".
http://www.geekstoy.com/forum/showthread.php?15893-Betfair-Reported-Abuses-Stolen-Money-From-Users-Accounts

As they claim ''that you did a fraud by transfering money from another account'' I m asking you if you hold another Betfair accounts with them or directly with betfair, or if you think there was an exactly correlated bet with your bets. Also did you have any corelated action with Matchbook?
Thank you.

No no, I only had one betfair account, about matchbook is an alternative, in 2015 I had my acc suspended 2/3 times for "investigation" but everything was solved very fast, in 2 days and without missing any withdraw like this one at betfair, from what I read about matchbook was at the time they didn't liked very much "big players" because of their market makers, this matchbook acc is from other broker, http://bet-football.com, with more than 100k eur in withdraws without any problem.
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BET-IBC Support
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Re: Betfair / bet-ibc moved 64K from my acc
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2018, 01:03:17 PM »

Dear Arbusers Forum Community!

One of our top clients since many years and also a very happy member of this forum, informed us about that thread, so we wanted to leave a reply in order to provide the forum community with the truth.

The complainer „Tennistrader“ did the following bets on the match Han N. - Lutzeier L. (Challenger Women Honolulu):

Lay Lena Lutzeier 33 283 EUR @ 1,06 on 19/11/2017 at 21:40:11
Lay Lena Lutzeier 28 528 EUR @ 1,07 on 19/11/2017 at 21:40:18
Lay Lena Lutzeier 28 528 EUR @ 1,07 on 19/11/2017 at 21:40:30
Lay Lena Lutzeier 3 199 EUR @ 1,07 on 19/11/2017 at 21:40:51

The game ended 6/0, 6/4 for Han N., so at no point that odd was correct.
Afterwards the complaining person „Tennistrader“ did some bets on the other side to take all risk out and make a sure profit (transfer money from one account to the other):
Eg.:
Lay Han N. @ 1,16 on 19/11/2017 at 21:49:18
Lay Han N. @ 1,18 on 19/11/2017 at 21:49:40
Lay Han N. @ 1,19 on 19/11/2017 at 21:49:45

Everyone who knows odds, understands that within 9 minutes, the odds cannot move from 1,06 on Lutzeier to 1,16 on Han N., having the 1st set 6:0 for Han N.
So what happened here is the complainer „Tennistrader“ transfered money between one or more accounts, offering very low odds in a very small market where nobody else at that time was betting.
People which use stolen credit cards make that since years and it is a very well know tactic among thieves.

What is only surprising for us, BET-IBC, is that someone like the complainer „Tennistrader“, who obviously has so much experience in this „business“, seriously expected that Betfair won´t find out such scam.

After being detected by Betfair, the money was refunded by Betfair to the account holder where the money should have been transfered from. So no damage for the complainer „Tennistrader“ occured.

Since the complainer „Tennistrader“ filed multiple complains without any positive outcome for him at various places like the licence authority in Montenegro, sportsbookreview.com, etc., it seems that Betfair did everything like it should have been done.

That topic was and is closed for us and we won´t comment any further.

Kind Regards,
BET-IBC
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apoel81
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apoel81

Re: Betfair / bet-ibc moved 64K from my acc
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2018, 09:02:13 PM »

What you say makes sense. However, there is a small possibility that someone else placed wrong odds and user just took advantage of it. Are all (back and lay) bets done from same ip address?
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AlexNotman1
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Re: Betfair / bet-ibc moved 64K from my acc
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2018, 10:18:13 PM »

Everyone who knows odds, understands that within 9 minutes, the odds cannot move from 1,06 on Lutzeier to 1,16 on Han N., having the 1st set 6:0 for Han N.

This isn't true. I dont support any side but I've seen many tennis matches, manipulated, bent, when odds moved against any logic so statement "odds cannot move from 1.06 to 1.16 when 6:0 first set" isn't true.

But from the other perspective, I've seen a lot of examples of money transfers on BF so if this market was shitty one, without any liquidity it is possible he tried to transfer money as such cases happens only on markets when there are no odds at all or no liquidity all.

I'm not extreme experienced but I don't think anyone can be 100% sure it was money transfer if both (lay/back) bets were placed from different IP and it was first such case for both account. There is small possibility - as mentioned - that he took advantage of some mug putting wrong odds or bot gone wrong so its just guessing imo.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 10:26:58 PM by AlexNotman1 » Logged
ulfi
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ulfi

Re: Betfair / bet-ibc moved 64K from my acc
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2018, 10:49:10 PM »

so it seems my assumption at the beginning was right

was very shocked when i saw this topic, cause i am a highroller at betibc too.

@AlexNotman1
its seems the pre game odds were na lae ~1.02 and lena lutzeier ~10.0. so tennistrader apparently made a 90k(!) lay(lutzeier) in a nearly empty market after lutzeier even was 0:6 behind with 1.07 odds, but normally the odds had to be higher then 10. and in a nearly empty market it is very very unlikely that someone make such a 90k mistake.

it would be interesting to know the ips which are involved in these bets. probably only 2 ips, if 2 accounts (ips) made these bets against each other. and to see whether they correlate (for example same location/town) or not
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 03:22:45 AM by ulfi » Logged
arbusers
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Re: Betfair / bet-ibc moved 64K from my acc
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2018, 08:07:32 AM »

We do not allow 1st posters who registered just today to post in this thread with no obvious interest in this case, taking one or the other position.
This is to protect both the player and the agent.
Thank you.
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apoel81
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Re: Betfair / bet-ibc moved 64K from my acc
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2018, 02:17:24 PM »

@Bet-IBC, do you have any idea if betfair voided both transactions? I mean, betfair voided your customer that won 64k, yet someone else lost those 64k. What happened to the other guy that lost? Was he refunded?
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