[neopas]

Taken from Pinnacle's Terms and Conditions:

''We may suspend and/or cancel the participation of your Account in the Services, and/or forfeit and/or confiscate funds available on your Account if you are found cheating, or if it is determined by us that you have employed or made use of a system (including machines, robots, computers, software or any other automated system) designed to defeat or capable of defeating our applications and/or software''

[thorocska]

Taken from Pinnacle's Terms and Conditions:

''We may suspend and/or cancel the participation of your Account in the Services, and/or forfeit and/or confiscate funds available on your Account if you are found cheating, or if it is determined by us that you have employed or made use of a system (including machines, robots, computers, software or any other automated system) designed to defeat or capable of defeating our applications and/or software''

Thanks for this information.
For me, this is a big disaster.
"confiscate funds" What the hell??
The key here what they mean in "defeat or capable of defeating our applications and/or software".

[Chipmunk]

Bot action needs to go through the API, that much is not new I think.

[atilla9]

The more smart action the more they will protect their profits.
But the way they want to do this is shameful.

Also this is a strong indication that bots and software approach in general are strong weapons in batlle against bookies.

Do they call you a cheater if you value betting? This is sad.

[pythonic]

Is this a new paragraph?
It could mean everything or nothing, but as long as they don't close the API it seems more like a catch-all phrase against "abuse" of their service (whatever that means), and not against value betting.

[atilla9]

Yeah rationally I hope it does not refer to value betting.

[thorocska]

Is this a new paragraph?
It could mean everything or nothing, but as long as they don't close the API it seems more like a catch-all phrase against "abuse" of their service (whatever that means), and not against value betting.

"defeat or capable of defeating our applications and/or software".

"defeat" could mean anything, arbing, value betting or "simply" beating the closing line. If they want, they say you defeated their software, and now we confiscate your funds.
This terms and conditions are not acceptable.

[thorocska]

Another important question how the agents handle this situation?
Agents provide Pinbet accounts with lower limits than normal account, but it is possible to use API via these accounts.
Also, some agent implemented own API to place bets, like AsianConnect's AsianOdds API. (But I'm almost sure they use the official Pinnacle API internally to place Pinnacle bets.)

[arbusers]

These Terms are clearly showing that Pinnacle is not what it used to be. Sharp action became much sharper these last years and the volumes coming from sharp action are much bigger in terms of % compared to dump volumes.
These Terms are very general and they leave huge space for many interpretations not necessarily for the player but against the player.

Side comment: There are ways to camouflage bot action and make them look like pure human manual betting. Some bots are already adopted.

[thorocska]

Side comment: There are ways to camouflage bot action and make them look like pure human manual betting. Some bots are already adopted.

Arbusers, this part of the term annoys me: "if it is determined by us that you have employed or made use of a system"
So if someone employs a winning betting system (with manual betting and/or BOT action) could be judged by "defeating" Pinnacle's software. So in my interpretation every winning account could be flagged as "defeating". Emulating human betting and excluding BOT action is not helping here if I understand the above sentence correctly. What do you think?

[arbusers]

Even though we are talking about different things, I completely agree with what you say.

These Terms are very general and they leave huge space for many interpretations not necessarily for the player but against the player.

[Wolfie]

Pinnacle new slogan is:
If you lose, we win.
If you win, we confiscate your balance, so we win.

[vinciguerra]

if you don't like it, don't play there.  good luck with that.

[golem77]

if you don't like it, don't play there.  good luck with that.

Really hard to imagine that. Pinny is still "essential". Better advice is keep the balance you will not regret to lost. Money managment/risk balance is the key i think so.

[dealer wins]

How can you "defeat pinnacles software"   They offer odds, they move their line after every sizeable bet on said lines, and as they keep saying, they dont limit any client (Which is BS but ignore that for now) so how can betting on odds they offer be anything other than placing a bet?   As per their blogs "We welcome sharp action, it shapes our line"  Arbers welcome, we actively court arbers" etc etc

Are Pinnacle going down the tubes, seems we need to be careful of how much £$€ we keep there, they are not what they used to be or claim to be any more!