Looking for feedback to create a new service

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arbitraders
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Looking for feedback to create a new service
« on: March 18, 2020, 10:43:00 PM »

Hey everyone! First, a bit of context. I'm pretty new here and still have a lot of reading to do so please forgive me if I touch on any topics that are already covered elsewhere in the forum.

Long story short, I'm a software developer who got interested in arbitrage a couple years ago, wrote a script to find arbs, placed some bets and made some money.
I don't live in a country that's friendly to betting, so it quickly became more trouble than it was worth to create and fund a couple of accounts and spend 10 minutes manually reviewing and placing each bet just to make a few cents.

I recently discovered some new web technologies that I absolutely love and I'm looking for any excuse to use them more and arbitrage presents a lot of super interesting challenges. My tendency has been to start random projects (like that arbitrage-finding script), build a small proof of concept for fun, and then move on to the next thing.

Now I'm looking to gain more experience creating quality, real-world products, and think an alerts service would be a cool way to get started IF it sounds useful to anyone. I know there's a lot of stuff out there already, so I'd be looking to help fill in any gaps.

A few things that come to mind would be making specialized calculators, supporting obscure bookies, showing unique arbs per user so people aren't competing with each other, or providing very up-to-date odds.

I'm really open to anything that might provide some value. From my (admittedly very shallow) research, I don't see anything public that actually places the bets for you. It seems you still have to spend at least a few seconds opening each bookie's website and placing the bets. Not sure if that's because it's too difficult, likely to get you banned, or just because anyone with automatic trading software is keeping it to themselves. I'm totally down to try it though if it could make sense.

Full disclosure, it would obviously be awesome to make some money eventually, whether by using my own service to place arbs, charging a monthly membership, or having affiliate links to sign up to bookies (and maybe ads?), but truly more than anything I'm just looking to build some experience creating something that provides real value to someone. I'll respect your privacy and not try to steal your strategies or anything like that.

So any thoughts on something worth building? What does your ideal online platform for arbitrage (or matched or value or other) betting look like?

I've already converted my old script to some newer technologies and am able to display a list of arbs, but figure it's not worth paying for hosting yet since those services already exist. Happy to throw it online though if anyone wants to see this first version.
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arbitraders
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Re: Looking for feedback to create a new service
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2020, 11:01:45 PM »

Just starting to poke around some more, but it looks like a service that fetches odds from exchanges and bookmakers and then can deliver those via API for others to use in their software could also be useful. I guess the existing ones are either expensive or slow/unreliable. What if I could offer a fast and reliable odds API service for free?
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neopas
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Re: Looking for feedback to create a new service
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2020, 10:20:19 AM »

@ arbitraders,

I dont want to discourage you but your plan is not sustainable. First of all you are posting here using the following words.

I'm pretty new here and still have a lot of reading to do
I recently discovered
build a small proof of concept for fun
I'm looking to gain more experience
From my (admittedly very shallow) research

Man, this is not the place for you. You should be looking in Freelancer and Fiverr, not in arbusers. Who is going to trust his money to someone who is just gaining experience?
And why should someone work with a freelancer when he could work with Betburger and its manpower?
Not to mention that you are doing wrong assumptions when you say that there are 2 seconds needed. There is a thing called auto-surf and it is already offered by BetBurger and RebelBetting. And also there is a thing called smartbet.io that works perfectly to place bets in 0 seconds.

So keep reading and start educating your self, before you ask for anyone's strategies, advise or even money.

I m also surprised that the Boss is allowing you to post here when you are looking for affiliate opportunities as you say. He is getting rusty.
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arbitraders
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Re: Looking for feedback to create a new service
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2020, 07:13:51 PM »

Hey @neopas, I really appreciate the response! I was trying to toe the line between being concise and still providing some context, but I probably didn't strike quite the right balance.

Since you've engaged and I hopefully won't scare you off with what might turn into a pretty long post, I'll see if I can walk you through my thought process and clarify a few things a bit. If at the end, you still feel what I'm trying to do is in any way appropriate or that this isn't the right place for me, please do let me know.

First of all, what I intended to show is that I don't have a plan and I'm not trying to be sustainable. This, and all my words that you quoted, were my attempt to be humble. I didn't think anyone would appreciate me randomly showing up and claiming to be the next big thing. In fact, I know that they wouldn't because I have started educating myself and I am not asking for anyone's "strategies, advice, or even money."

I'm actually an excellent developer, and I've done a lot of research and implementation in lots of areas related to arbitrage, and I think I've come up with some pretty clever strategies.  It's just been a few years since I was really into it, and I recognize that many people here have a lot more expertise in this area than I do.

I also know they're incredibly suspicious. If I simply posted "I'll build your arb software for free," everyone would obviously think I'm trying to steal strategies or employ some other scam. That's the only reason I even mentioned money at all, because I know everyone is thinking "well what is he really trying to get out of this?" and it's hard to believe the truth that I'm trying to gain some experience building something people might actually use. I don't need the experience and I certainly don't need the money. This may not be the right place for me, but I'm definitely not interested in Freelancer or Fiverr, because I don't want to build private arb software for someone else. The whole point of what I'm trying to do is to maybe, one day, become an entrepreneur and be my own boss, not have someone else tell me exactly what to build. I'm doing this because I love a good challenge and I was hoping people would propose a couple for me.

I'm trying to be as open and transparent as possible. I do not plan to charge for anything. If by some miracle a few years from now, this humble project has turned into something on the scale of Betburger with its manpower, then I would be faced with the necessity of covering my costs, and possibly needing to spend more time on it than my full-time job allows. If I ever end up needing to charge any money, the last thing I'd want is for people to hate me and claim that they knew I was running some scam from the start. I'd love to promise that "all initial/beta/prelaunch/whatever users" will continue to use whatever service I'm providing for free for life, but I don't even know if I'll be building and maintaining anything. I was trying hard to just be as transparent and non-threatening as possible, while demonstrating that I do have some awareness of the way other services operate. If affiliate links and anything else you want to mention are frowned upon, I can assure you they're crossed off my list. I think we're still a longggg way from even needing to think about any of that though.

My honest hopes and expectations were that I could put up a free website somewhat similar to oddschecker (but with 1 sport and a few bookies/exchanges initially) and maybe add a few calculators. I want people to use it and make money and find and report bugs. Then I can continue to improve the functionality, design, and customer support. I want practice doing those things in the real world, because I want to create products that are valuable to people. This particular one is not my dream business, but I do think it's a great way to get started.

But I can't make improvements or support "customers" that don't exist and don't provide feedback. And I'm guessing I won't get any users if I make a less-complete version of something that already exists. So rather than waste my time building something useless, I'm asking you to give me a decent challenge. Is there anything at all that you wish Betburger could do for you? Or something that costs money that you wish was free?

I know nothing I've said inspires any confidence that I'll follow through and make something useful/reliable/safe/whatever, but give me a chance to prove it. You have nothing to lose but the time it takes to type "I wish there was an arb calculator that was automatically populated with the odds from three different bookies/exchanges where I have accounts, factoring in each unique commission, any discounts I have, the cash in each account, liquidity of the market, depth of the bets, and currency exchange rates, automatically rounding to the nearest 5 euros/dollars/whatever, which also allows me to manually adjust my stakes. I could see a table of unique (not shown to other users) real-time, arbs, filtered by where I have accounts, ordered by ROI, factoring in how soon the event will end. Then I'd click on an arb, review and adjust the values in a calculator, and then click 'Place all bets' and wait for the money to roll in." Tell me something like that (or much simpler or more complex) and then maybe a month or a year from now, such a tool might just exist. For free.

Seriously, please tell me if that doesn't make sense or I'm out of line here. Thanks :)

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neopas
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Re: Looking for feedback to create a new service
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2020, 12:29:08 PM »

The way you put it, you are looking for a mentor. I m not good enough to become your mentor.

The only direct questions in your long text are the following:

Is there anything at all that you wish Betburger could do for you? Or something that costs money that you wish was free?

I m sure many people would agree that we need a more stable coverage of Bet365. This costs money, I wish I have it for free.
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arbusers
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Re: Looking for feedback to create a new service
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2020, 12:59:04 PM »

Bigger projects require cooperation. 1 is not enough even if he/she is multitalented. This is evident from the OP. Even if you are the best developer in the world, you are not going far if you cant combine that with the knowledge of a pro gambler.
Pro gamblers are not willing to offer their insights for free. They have absolutely no reason to do so. By sharing their knowledge, they generate bigger competition.
I have no idea how OddsScheckers started and who are the people behind it, but it is evident this is not an one-man show.
So what you are looking for, is a team of people willing to contribute their knowledge, time and effort in order to bring something in the market.
I can say this...the smallest the manpower is, the worse outcome you bring out there. This is not the 2000s when we all started. Here we have well-established companies that created barriers to entry.
Imagine this...you make huge efforts and you create something that no-one has. How long do you think it will be before BetBurger, RebelBetting or anyone else copy your idea, and bring it out cheaper and in a developed version?
Think about these things before you invest time, nerves and energy.
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arbitraders
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Re: Looking for feedback to create a new service
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2020, 02:55:41 PM »

Thank you both for the helpful replies! I'll definitely look into getting stable coverage of Bet365  :)

I understand that it sounds like I'm "looking for a mentor" and I do know that "bigger projects require collaboration."
If it happens to generate a lot of interest and the project outgrows my one-man show, then I'd start looking for more collaboration and potentially a mentor.

For now though, it's not my desire to take on a huge project or overtake Betburger, RebelBetting, etc. I just want to start with something small and see where it goes. If one of the big guys decided to try to copy the idea, it would present a great opportunity to be creative and try to deal with competition in the marketplace.

I really appreciate the warnings to try to keep me from wasting resources. I'll plan to put what I have so far online and see if it receives any actionable feedback and just take it one step at a time. I think it will be helpful to have an actual website to discuss, rather than pure hypotheticals as it's been so far.

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aggelos
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Re: Looking for feedback to create a new service
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2020, 09:05:54 PM »

Hey everyone! First, a bit of context. I'm pretty new here and still have a lot of reading to do so please forgive me if I touch on any topics that are already covered elsewhere in the forum.

Long story short, I'm a software developer who got interested in arbitrage a couple years ago, wrote a script to find arbs, placed some bets and made some money.
I don't live in a country that's friendly to betting, so it quickly became more trouble than it was worth to create and fund a couple of accounts and spend 10 minutes manually reviewing and placing each bet just to make a few cents.

I recently discovered some new web technologies that I absolutely love and I'm looking for any excuse to use them more and arbitrage presents a lot of super interesting challenges. My tendency has been to start random projects (like that arbitrage-finding script), build a small proof of concept for fun, and then move on to the next thing.

Now I'm looking to gain more experience creating quality, real-world products, and think an alerts service would be a cool way to get started IF it sounds useful to anyone. I know there's a lot of stuff out there already, so I'd be looking to help fill in any gaps.

A few things that come to mind would be making specialized calculators, supporting obscure bookies, showing unique arbs per user so people aren't competing with each other, or providing very up-to-date odds.

I'm really open to anything that might provide some value. From my (admittedly very shallow) research, I don't see anything public that actually places the bets for you. It seems you still have to spend at least a few seconds opening each bookie's website and placing the bets. Not sure if that's because it's too difficult, likely to get you banned, or just because anyone with automatic trading software is keeping it to themselves. I'm totally down to try it though if it could make sense.

Full disclosure, it would obviously be awesome to make some money eventually, whether by using my own service to place arbs, charging a monthly membership, or having affiliate links to sign up to bookies (and maybe ads?), but truly more than anything I'm just looking to build some experience creating something that provides real value to someone. I'll respect your privacy and not try to steal your strategies or anything like that.

So any thoughts on something worth building? What does your ideal online platform for arbitrage (or matched or value or other) betting look like?

I've already converted my old script to some newer technologies and am able to display a list of arbs, but figure it's not worth paying for hosting yet since those services already exist. Happy to throw it online though if anyone wants to see this first version.

hello i am looking for a arbitrage-finding script . can someone help me ?
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arbitraders
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Re: Looking for feedback to create a new service
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2020, 02:14:54 PM »

Hi aggelos and anyone else who's curious. I released a very early beta version of my website at https://arbitraders.io/

I have a script to find arbitrage opportunities and then feed them to the website. If it's useful to you, I could set up an API feed or webhooks to send you information about arbs when it finds them.

I need more information about exactly what you're looking for in an arbitrage-finding script, but I might be able to help you out.
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aggelos
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Re: Looking for feedback to create a new service
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2020, 01:03:10 AM »

Hello arbitraders
i am aggelos from greece.
in greece the is a bookie called opap . opap has stores that you can play anonymous so you will not have limit problems . my problem is that opap is not in betburger so i can not find arb/value bets . and i was thinking if i can find arbs through your program .i want to have as 'mother' pinnacle,bet365 and maybe one more and find arbs only with opap .opap web page is       https://pamestoixima.opap.gr/en/          can you please help me with my problem ?
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arbitraders
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Re: Looking for feedback to create a new service
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2020, 10:40:18 PM »

Hi aggelos. Thanks for providing some more information. I'll plan to start by adding Pinnacle and Bet365 as those are more popular and useful for others, and then I'll let you know if I'm able to add opap also.
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Samael
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Re: Looking for feedback to create a new service
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2020, 12:35:01 AM »

I like your decisiveness and fact that you took time to create website.

With your knowledge i think you should try to explore and concetrate on some other things due to following reasons:

1)lot of people moved on from arbing due to various reasons
2)There is number of alerts already,that have more manpower behind and are technically more advanced with nicer interface
3)not to say anything about your credibility but people will always trust legit company over random person
4)its tough to advertise this way

i would recommend you to explore value betting,early line movements whatever.
People seem to be much more into that then arbing for some time
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Re: Looking for feedback to create a new service
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2020, 05:01:28 PM »

I actually have an idea which is quite bueno and would be surely beneficial but im not sure if to make it for public usage or private usage only....  Im talking about automatical bet placement via api. I also have developed something already so 1/3 of the work is basically done. But would like to know more about you. Maybe you can ask  admin for contact or so. Dont really wanna discuss it here in public :)

Cheers
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arbitraders
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Re: Looking for feedback to create a new service
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2020, 01:01:33 AM »

Samael, thanks so much for your excellent response. That's exactly the type of feedback I was hoping to gather. I'd definitely prefer to do something novel, rather than compete directly with a lot of big, existing services. I'll see how I can factor value betting and other unique data into my service. Please let me know if you have any specific ideas of what that might look like.

Arctrading, I would love to hear more about your idea. You can reach me directly/privately through the chat at the bottom right of https://arbitraders.io/

Thanks!
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