Custom software development

Make bookmakers cash cow machines
parker
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Custom software development

Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:59 am

Dear all,

a fellow board member explainded to me that, once you get a higher bank roll, only the sharp bookies remain and you would need your own software to discover your own arbs etc. (see here: http://arbusers.com/index.php/topic,774.0.html )
Although I have not much experience in arb betting yet, I am already looking in to starting to program my own alert service. This way, it will hopefully be bug free by the time I actually need to use it.

I have quite a bit of programming experience, so most of the algorithms etc woulnd't be a problem. The thing that bugs me most is this: how to get the odds from for example pinnacle, sbo, .... Are they offering these odds in an easy to read xml feed or similar, or do you need to scrape their website ? Since having "fresh odds" is of vital importance, this would mean analyzing all the odds of the website at least once a minute, which would look very suspicious to them if the same computer downloads their whole site a few hundred times a day.

Thank you for your thoughts!
Parker
ajeto
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Re: Custom software development

Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:11 am

I didn't say that having own software will solve all problems.

There already are experts out there who have made advanced, custom software. There are companies that have invested hundreds thousands to develop this kind of software, even bookmakers themselves develop that kind of software. I am not a programmer but I see that you re asking about very basic stuff i.e. how to get odds from a bookie. IMO you need to be very good programmer or better have a very good teem of programmers and enough funds to invest, if you want make something little useful.
parker
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Re: Custom software development

Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:28 am

ajeto wrote: I didn't say that having own software will solve all problems.

Yes, I understand. However, I found it a very interesting suggestion!
ajeto wrote: There already are experts out there who have made advanced, custom software. There are companies that have invested hundreds thousands to develop this kind of software, even bookmakers themselves develop that kind of software. I am not a programmer but I see that you re asking about very basic stuff i.e. how to get odds from a bookie. IMO you need to be very good programmer or better have a very good teem of programmers and enough funds to invest, if you want make something little useful.
The question "how to get odds" is not really a technical programming question. I find it hard to believe that all these programs would be scraping the odds 'illegally' from the bookies website, and that said bookies wouldn't block the ip adress from computers downloading the whole site every X minutes. So I'm pretty sure there should be another way.

I don't mind taking the risk (=investing time into something that turns out to be useless in the end) to try it out. Worst case scenario, I've  brushed up my programming skills. There is also a huge difference between writing a piece of software specially for you and between a piece of software that will be commercially used and has to run on many different computers. But yes, I might underestimate it.
parker
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Re: Custom software development

Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:44 am

To clarify it:

for a basic test system, this should happen:

1) get the odds from bookies sites
2) put everything in your own database
3) calculate the arbs
4) some basic autosurf capability to increase the speed of placing those arbs

The basic system (assuming step 1 is normally possible) should be fairly simple to build. It gets complicated when you combine a lot of bookies and add all kinds of nice features like calculators, safety checks, ...
If the first test with for example 2 bookies would allow me to quickly place an arb, let's say 30 seconds after publication, it might be worth the time to add more. So I want to take it step by step. And the first one will be the hardest I'm afraid.
bookielover
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Re: Custom software development

Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:12 pm

My software places the bets "directly" on the bookie .. I don't have to go into a browser window and have to place them manually.
This gives me a huge time frame and advantage towards my competitors.

I think this is very important, not because of the timeframe, but as well a software makes less errors then "humans" do.
parker
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Re: Custom software development

Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:28 pm

bookielover wrote: My software places the bets "directly" on the bookie .. I don't have to go into a browser window and have to place them manually.
This gives me a huge time frame and advantage towards my competitors.

I think this is very important, not because of the timeframe, but as well a software makes less errors then "humans" do.
This was also on my to do list. How did you solve the "getting the arbs" section ? Do you have access to an xml feed or do you scrape the website ? You can reply via PM if you prefer. You don't need to tell me if it's a "trick" or anything, I'd just hate to program a complicated scraper only to find out there is an easy to read api/xml available....
bookielover
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Re: Custom software development

Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:08 pm

If there is an XML available, then XML, otherwise screen scraping ... it is not so, that bookies change the web site every day and if you have enough bookies implemented and one changes the site, then you can go on with all the other bookies and fix that one.
parker
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Re: Custom software development

Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:18 am

bookielover wrote: If there is an XML available, then XML, otherwise screen scraping ... it is not so, that bookies change the web site every day and if you have enough bookies implemented and one changes the site, then you can go on with all the other bookies and fix that one.
The website of the bookies don't change every day, but the odds change every minute right ? So to have the most recent odds in your own database/program would mean that you need to basically download the whole website every minute. Doesn't that cause any problems , for example, doesn't your ip get blocked ?
parker
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Re: Custom software development

Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:29 pm

So, I've decided I'll try to build something for the sharp ones, while manually arbing on the softies. I have to start somewhere, so which combination of 2 sharp bookies would give the most arbs ? It's just for software testing, so arbs of 0.1 % are fine as well :)

Very informative board this is!
parker
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Re: Custom software development

Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:00 pm

I tried some bookies, and I have software now that can find arbs. The problem I am facing now is with Betfair: From the moment of the discovery of the arb via the free betfair API to the placement of the bet via this same api, the available limit drops significantly or the odds change quite a bit.  This whole process takes around 500ms.

I am wondering now: is this caused by the free version of the api, which has certain kinds of l imitations, or would I have the same problem at the "real" / paying API ?

Follow up question (probably for programmers): is there an option in the Betfair api to say something like: "place an amount of XX for the best possible odds at market YYY no matter how much everything changes ?"
yaqbpl
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Re: Custom software development

Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:23 pm

im also workin on software with this schema:
1) get the odds from bookies sites
2) put everything in your own database
3) calculate the arbs

but i stuck on betfair. did anyone mange to dowload and process odds fast? it takes so long that it is not realistic to work with changing markets - which is important as i can imagine.

im open for some cooperation
bookielover
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Re: Custom software development

Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:26 am

You stuck on Betfair - I cannot believe this ... how do you get the date, via (free) Betfair API or JSON on their website? ... The odds fetchings are pretty fast, so I cannot understand your complaint.
parker
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Re: Custom software development

Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:13 am

bookielover wrote: You stuck on Betfair - I cannot believe this ... how do you get the date, via (free) Betfair API or JSON on their website? ... The odds fetchings are pretty fast, so I cannot understand your complaint.
The free API.
The problem is that they allow you one request per second. Per request you can ask for one "market". Every event has +- 2 - 3 markets. If you have 500 events it takes 25 minutes to refresh every odd. This is way too long.

Hence my question: is it worth to pay for the "unlimited api", does this mean you can get 100 or 1000 requests per second ?
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Tzelos
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Re: Custom software development

Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:27 am

I have not much expierience at this. I'm using a program with the paying Betfair api version and from what i am reading at the forum there the problem would still  exist( about the delay of placing the bet). If you want and if it is not against the rules , i can post a link to try it out yourself with their free trial.
bookielover
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Re: Custom software development

Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:19 pm

Yes, that is difinitley true. Buying the full API version does not mean, that you can request more data without paying.
You have 20 (10) requests per second free and you have to pay for more, BUT if you make much turnover on betfair, this will be credited and you don't have to pay. If you make a good turnover, so it's possible for a certain period on a day making several hundreds of requests without paying anything.

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